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The cost of an expert, doing what you love and the rest
Thread poster: Valeria Burova
Valeria Burova
Valeria Burova  Identity Verified
Indonesia
Local time: 22:40
Member (2014)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
I guess Aug 29, 2017

Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:

You applied as a translator. You say that proofreading/editing carries more responsibility. The responsibilities are different. If you are not happy doing proofreading, then refuse those offers.
Some agencies apparently have their translations done to a very low standard and then rely on paying proofreaders to correct the work to a presentable standard. In such cases, the translators are poorly paid and the proofreaders are even more poorly paid. Again, if nothing better is offered, why continue to work with them?

I do have one question though. How did you as a freelancer participate in selecting your client's translators?


That was a part of their "modern approach" - one of my mates applied as well and then we received paid small jobs which turned to be a test..as we received a pack of such for evaluation later.


 
Kristina Cosumano (X)
Kristina Cosumano (X)  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:40
German to English
Just my experience with this Aug 29, 2017

When I began working as a translator—I hadn't even been working for a year yet—I applied to a very large (but not new) agency. They got back to me saying that I didn't have enough experience to work for them as a translator, but that they would consider me for proofreading and editing work. I jumped through a few of their hoops and tests and then gave up after having read all the less-than-positive experiences others had with them.
I am sure you are a competent translator, but I am not
... See more
When I began working as a translator—I hadn't even been working for a year yet—I applied to a very large (but not new) agency. They got back to me saying that I didn't have enough experience to work for them as a translator, but that they would consider me for proofreading and editing work. I jumped through a few of their hoops and tests and then gave up after having read all the less-than-positive experiences others had with them.
I am sure you are a competent translator, but I am not sure that this agency of yours cares, and may simply be feeding you compliments in order to get you to do editing work for them. One would like to think that editors are a notch higher than translators but that does not seem to be the case everywhere, as my experience illustrates.
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Valeria Burova
Valeria Burova  Identity Verified
Indonesia
Local time: 22:40
Member (2014)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
Its clear they dont Aug 29, 2017

Kristina Cosumano wrote:

When I began working as a translator—I hadn't even been working for a year yet—I applied to a very large (but not new) agency. They got back to me saying that I didn't have enough experience to work for them as a translator, but that they would consider me for proofreading and editing work. I jumped through a few of their hoops and tests and then gave up after having read all the less-than-positive experiences others had with them.
I am sure you are a competent translator, but I am not sure that this agency of yours cares, and may simply be feeding you compliments in order to get you to do editing work for them. One would like to think that editors are a notch higher than translators but that does not seem to be the case everywhere, as my experience illustrates.


I heard many words, but their attitude was never in line with what they say. I sent my last proposal yesterday, if they don't consider it, I walk away. Because I feel it is not cooperation it is usage.
Emptiness is better than opportunities that are not worth it.

As about who is higher, this game is not worth it as well, it is about how much money and joy you get from your work, the only things that matter...

[Редактировалось 2017-08-29 09:58 GMT]


 
Valeria Burova
Valeria Burova  Identity Verified
Indonesia
Local time: 22:40
Member (2014)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Aug 29, 2017

Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:

You applied as a translator. You say that proofreading/editing carries more responsibility. The responsibilities are different. If you are not happy doing proofreading, then refuse those offers.
Some agencies apparently have their translations done to a very low standard and then rely on paying proofreaders to correct the work to a presentable standard. In such cases, the translators are poorly paid and the proofreaders are even more poorly paid. Again, if nothing better is offered, why continue to work with them?

I do have one question though. How did you as a freelancer participate in selecting your client's translators?


for your points and criteria, I don't remember all of them, but that was very constructive list!

[Редактировалось 2017-08-29 10:56 GMT]


 
Peter Shortall
Peter Shortall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Romanian to English
+ ...
Standing up for yourself Aug 29, 2017

This sounds like one of those agencies that will always try to push you as far as you let them, because it suits them. They have ignored what you said about wanting to translate rather than edit, and up to this point, you have allowed them to push you, to a certain extent. As you've already realised, this is a lesson in standing up for yourself, and I'm glad that you've decided to start doing that because the only way to stop this behaviour is to start pushing back in the opposite direction. Fro... See more
This sounds like one of those agencies that will always try to push you as far as you let them, because it suits them. They have ignored what you said about wanting to translate rather than edit, and up to this point, you have allowed them to push you, to a certain extent. As you've already realised, this is a lesson in standing up for yourself, and I'm glad that you've decided to start doing that because the only way to stop this behaviour is to start pushing back in the opposite direction. From what you say, it sounds like a very deliberate strategy on their part, and I agree that their behaviour is unlikely to change.

Of course, this may cost you the client, but it sounds like they're not a good client anyway. When you gain better clients, you will be less vulnerable to this situation because you will be able to afford the luxury of turning down work like this.

I dislike editing/proofreading, and have a client who occasionally asks me to edit other people's translations even though I told them I don't proofread. Or to be more precise: I made the mistake of saying I "don't normally" proofread. And on one occasion, a very determined PM from that agency persuaded me to accept a small editing job. That signalled to them that I might be willing to cave in again in future, and sure enough, last week they asked me to edit another translation. Being firm doesn't come very naturally to me, but I've worked on it over the years and am a lot better than I used to be!


[Edited at 2017-08-29 11:00 GMT]
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Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:40
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Amusingly... Aug 29, 2017

I sometimes get translation jobs that the end user had already started to translate into English before realising that they wouldn't be able to do it.

At that point the end user contacted an agency and the agency contacted me, requesting me to just edit the first part and translate the rest.

I always insist on translating the whole document from scratch because (a) the end-user's English is never good enough (b) I need the whole translation to be consistent throughout.


 
Valeria Burova
Valeria Burova  Identity Verified
Indonesia
Local time: 22:40
Member (2014)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
well Aug 29, 2017

looks there is a chance to raise rate, but it is clear that they "prefer" to send me review exactly, like I am an employee who is obliged doing that only. I was asking for some balance between translation and review jobs based on income reasons as minimum (plus lack of interest to reviews which would improve the situation with motivation), saying I don't mind to consider both parties interest and do both review and translation - and to no end.

 
Jennifer Forbes
Jennifer Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:40
French to English
+ ...
In memoriam
The decision is YOURS Aug 29, 2017

Dear Valeria,
You seem to have missed the point of the sound advice you have received from colleagues here.
It doesn't matter what the client "prefers". YOU are the one who should decide what payment terms and what kind of work you will accept, NOT the agency!
If the agency is offering you terms or work or deadlines which are not satisfactory to you, you are free (politely, always) to decline their offer.
YOU are the boss. As we say in English: put your foot down.
D
... See more
Dear Valeria,
You seem to have missed the point of the sound advice you have received from colleagues here.
It doesn't matter what the client "prefers". YOU are the one who should decide what payment terms and what kind of work you will accept, NOT the agency!
If the agency is offering you terms or work or deadlines which are not satisfactory to you, you are free (politely, always) to decline their offer.
YOU are the boss. As we say in English: put your foot down.
Don't let yourself be bullied. There are other agencies in this wide world.
Best wishes.
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Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 14:40
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Criticism can be very positive feedback Aug 29, 2017

Valeria Burova wrote:

Lincoln Hui wrote:

Setting aside the readability issues of your post, what's stopping you from dropping them?


not for criticism of my skills

I believe Lincoln was trying to be diplomatic and helpful. I don't doubt that your English is much better than most/all of the people you know. But bear in mind that there are many native English speakers who have both studied Russian and spent years living there, and who are qualified Russian to English translators, and there are many native Russian speakers who have lived in English-speaking countries all their adult lives, and are qualified translators. All of these have an advantage over you in that pair. That's not criticism - it's fact. As freelance translators in an online environment, we're competing against all the others around the world, so it's only sensible to stick to doing what we do best. And we mustn't allow ourselves to be bullied by agencies who try to treat us like employees without giving us any of the benefits. A thicker skin goes a long way in this job.


 
Valeria Burova
Valeria Burova  Identity Verified
Indonesia
Local time: 22:40
Member (2014)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
I believe Aug 29, 2017

Sheila Wilson wrote:

Valeria Burova wrote:

Lincoln Hui wrote:

Setting aside the readability issues of your post, what's stopping you from dropping them?


not for criticism of my skills

I believe Lincoln was trying to be diplomatic and helpful. I don't doubt that your English is much better than most/all of the people you know. But bear in mind that there are many native English speakers who have both studied Russian and spent years living there, and who are qualified Russian to English translators, and there are many native Russian speakers who have lived in English-speaking countries all their adult lives, and are qualified translators. All of these have an advantage over you in that pair. That's not criticism - it's fact. As freelance translators in an online environment, we're competing against all the others around the world, so it's only sensible to stick to doing what we do best. And we mustn't allow ourselves to be bullied by agencies who try to treat us like employees without giving us any of the benefits. A thicker skin goes a long way in this job.


that being diplomatic is the omission of this part of the phrase at all.

It is not related to the point as I work in EN>RU pair, nothing to discuss even, with all respect, Sheila. I am aware of the difference between learning English here and in native environment and I don't offer this service at all unless I improve it enough to be confident I can charge for it. And now I am forced to explain, that I was in a hurry and emotional posting that piece, making mistakes, so what?

Thanks for cheering me up

[Редактировалось 2017-08-29 21:57 GMT]


 
MollyRose
MollyRose  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:40
English to Spanish
+ ...
Lincoln and Sheila Aug 29, 2017

They were doing you a service by being truthful.

In your post, you did not specify which language direction in which you were working. But under your name it shows that you also translate from Russian to English. So certainly they were basing their comments (your need to improve in English) to help you avoid problems with future work into English. One can tell by the "tone" of their words that they are trying to help you (that's why you posted a question--for help), not criticiz
... See more
They were doing you a service by being truthful.

In your post, you did not specify which language direction in which you were working. But under your name it shows that you also translate from Russian to English. So certainly they were basing their comments (your need to improve in English) to help you avoid problems with future work into English. One can tell by the "tone" of their words that they are trying to help you (that's why you posted a question--for help), not criticize in a negative way.

I hope you can see that now.
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Valeria Burova
Valeria Burova  Identity Verified
Indonesia
Local time: 22:40
Member (2014)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you Aug 29, 2017

MollyRose wrote:

They were doing you a service by being truthful.

In your post, you did not specify which language direction in which you were working. But under your name it shows that you also translate from Russian to English. So certainly they were basing their comments (your need to improve in English) to help you avoid problems with future work into English. One can tell by the "tone" of their words that they are trying to help you (that's why you posted a question--for help), not criticize in a negative way.

I hope you can see that now.






I have fixed that, just technical mistake after some rates update..


 
Valeria Burova
Valeria Burova  Identity Verified
Indonesia
Local time: 22:40
Member (2014)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks to all of you :) Aug 29, 2017

I am really grateful for every feedback, support and practical tips, it is very valuable!

I think I got vision on how to handle this situation.


 
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Nikki Scott-Despaigne  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:40
French to English
mutual translating and proofreading of tests Aug 30, 2017

Valeria Burova wrote:

That was a part of their "modern approach" - one of my mates applied as well and then we received paid small jobs which turned to be a test..as we received a pack of such for evaluation later.



I see. Well, I don't think there's anything that modern about that. It sounds as though your test translations were probaby assessed in the same way you were asked to assess the tests of other candidates. It could simply be a way of having short translations translated and proofread at low cost. It also sounds like the agent used flattery to convince you to accept. You may well be a good translator, but there is always someone just as good, if not better and sometimes (sadly) even cheaper waiting to take your place. A little bit of humulity goes a long way and helps one to keep things in proportion. That does not mean you should play down your skills, but being confident - and gaining a client's confidence - does not mean having to shout it from the rooftops

A decent agent is not an enemy but a partner. They will try you out on a couple of smaller jobs and have them checked in-house, or by another freelancer. They will also see how reactive you are and whether you can communicate correctly. Imagine things the other way round : would you trust an unknown person with an enormous and important translation without having seen the quality of their work and of their business relations beforehand?

Like I said at the outset, remember why you wanted to be a translator and drop this agency which does not appear to offer much of what you are looking for. While no agency is perfect, nor is any translator, if their way of working does not suit you, your business relations cannot be healthy. Drop them.

[Edited at 2017-08-30 08:55 GMT]


 
Valeria Burova
Valeria Burova  Identity Verified
Indonesia
Local time: 22:40
Member (2014)
English to Russian
TOPIC STARTER
Possible Aug 30, 2017

Nikki Scott-Despaigne wrote:




It sounds as though your test translations were probably assessed in the same way you were asked to assess the tests of other candidates.

Yes, but this doesn't mean my evaluation of myself as an expert based on this.

"shout it from the rooftops" - please, explain?


Like I said at the outset, remember why you wanted to be a translator and drop this agency which does not appear to offer much of what you are looking for. While no agency is perfect, nor is any translator, if their way of working does not suit you, your business relations cannot be healthy. Drop them.

[Edited at 2017-08-30 08:55 GMT] [/quote]

Yup, this sounds very reasonable.


 
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