Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

dont acte sans renvoi

English translation:

Duly recorded, with no marginal notes/footnotes

Added to glossary by AllegroTrans
Dec 31, 2023 09:34
4 mos ago
42 viewers *
French term

dont acte sans renvoi

French to English Law/Patents Law (general) Acte de notoriété
Bonjour il s'agit d'un acte de notoriété pour une succession et ces termes font partie du paragraphe intitulé "FORMALISME LIE AUX ANNEXES"
- si l'acte est établi sur support électronique , la signature du notaire en fin d'acte vaut également pour ses annexes.
DONT ACTE sans renvoi
Généré en l'office notarial en visualisé sur support électronique.
Merci beaucoup pour votre aide
Change log

Jan 2, 2024 22:06: AllegroTrans changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/2321939">Lucia28's</a> old entry - "dont acte sans renvoi"" to ""Duly recorded, with no marginal notes/cross-references""

Discussion

Lucia28 (asker) Dec 31, 2023:
I already have and found dont acte but not the rest
Jennifer White Dec 31, 2023:
@asker Both expressions have been asked before. Please do a kudos search. Easily found.

Proposed translations

+2
6 hrs
Selected

Duly recorded, with no marginal notes/cross-references

Keep it simple

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Note added at 6 hrs (2023-12-31 16:20:34 GMT)
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https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-patents/479...

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Note added at 8 hrs (2023-12-31 18:30:19 GMT)
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"Footnotes" is better than "marginal notes" I think

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Note added at 3 days 10 hrs (2024-01-03 20:20:23 GMT) Post-grading
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Pourquoi Dit-on Dont acte ?
acte est pris de ce qui vient d'être dit. Il est pris bonne note de la chose.

Définition du mot dont acte - Webnext.fr

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Note added at 3 days 10 hrs (2024-01-03 20:22:46 GMT) Post-grading
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dont acte \dɔ̃.t‿akt\ invariable

(Droit) (Par ellipse) Formule terminant un acte juridique, un contrat, un avenant, et spécifiant qu’il est donné acte par un officier ministériel, ou qu’il est pris acte entre les contractants de ce qui précède.

https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/dont_acte
Note from asker:
thanks a lot and happy New Year to all !
Peer comment(s):

agree writeaway : Simple and clear.
30 mins
thanks!
agree Andrew Bramhall : Yes, clear and concise; no need to go down the whereto, wherefore or wherefore art thou route
6 hrs
thanks
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks a lot "
-1
5 hrs

whereof a record unaltered ; (notarial) WHEREOF an Act without any alteration(s)

-> as opposed to 'IN WITNESS OF no alteration' or 'AS WITNESS my hand and seal unaltered' (the amendment doesn't refer to the latter)

Note the caps as a conventional drafting opener.

Our inhouse Scrivener-Linguist Notaries (one now or heretofore on ProZ) used the literal translation of 'whereof a /notarial/ act'

Brooke's Notary as the 'Notarial Bible', Sweet & Maxwell -> *any critics pls. quote chapter & verse* : one permutation in no.12.37 being: 'in witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my official seal the day and year aforesaid'

and no. 12.38: 'IN FAITH AND TESTIMONY WHEREOF...I the said notary have subscribed my name and set and affixed my seal of office at ..... aforesaid this .. day of ... two thousand and ... '
Peer comment(s):

disagree AllegroTrans : "Renvoi(s)", at the end of notarial instruments, refers invariably to marginal notes/footnotes, not alterations. I have seen zillions of these.
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
6 hrs

whereof the above constitutes legal publication, without marginal notes

I think the sentence is to show that there has been no alterations in the document.
Peer comment(s):

neutral AllegroTrans : How is this an improvement on Bourth's suggestion? My comment to him also applies here
1 hr
disagree Andrew Bramhall : Cribbing off AMM is never worth it;
7 hrs
Something went wrong...
+2
4 hrs

The foregoing, which constitutes legal publication, has no marginal notes

1) "dont acte , locution
Abréviation de l'expression "ce dont il est donné acte" ou "ce dont il est pris acte". Elle est généralement utilisée dans le vocabulaire et le lexique juridique et placée à la fin d'un communiqué. Elle signifie que l'information a été retenue et qu'on peut en tirer avantage plus tard.
Exemple : Cette expérience fut désastreuse. Dont acte, oublions ça."
https://www.linternaute.fr/dictionnaire/fr/definition/dont-a...

'The foregoing constitutes legal publication' is given by Termium, among other sources, for dont acte. To me it seems as good a translation as anything for l'information a été retenue et qu'on peut en tirer avantage plus tard.
https://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2alpha/alpha-fra.html?l...
https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/sous-toutes-réserves...
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-patents/121...

Oddly, however, this expression appears only in relation to translation of French documents. I would be tempted to simply gloss over the whole thing, for an adapation, but if the translation is to be set against the French, as well it might, an 'explanatory' translation rather than adaptation might be required.

2) As others have said, sans renvoi means that there are no marginal notes.

In pre-electronic days, a notaire's clerk/secretary typed up a document which was read to the parties concerned. If changes were to be made, they were entered as marginal notes on the paper document and initialled in ink (paraphé) by those present at the same time as each page was initialled.

These days, notaires amend documents directly on their computers, the parties present can see the document, as modified, projected onto the wall of the étude, and can then sign the entire document in one fell swoop by means of the electronic tablet presented to them for that purpose. Consequently there are no longer any renvois / marginal notes. But legal matters being what they are, people cling to tradition and the old ways and instead of simply embracing change feel they have to point out how what is new departs from the practice with what is old.

With that, I shall don my jerkin without laces or toggles or buttons (it has a zipper, you see) and venture out into the cold.


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Note added at 9 hrs (2023-12-31 19:08:21 GMT)
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Re. the suggestion of 'footnotes' elsewhere, a footnote is at the bottom of the page. In all the dealings I've had with notaires, both privately and professionally, the notes are added to the left or right of the body text, hence 'marginal'.

As for the 'legal publication' bit, I think the exact wording hardly matters, for it is probably a conceit unknown to English-speaking legal practitioners and is just there to fill the space. As I suggested, it could well be ignored.
Peer comment(s):

agree writeaway : Clear, understandable English. See Dbox entry too.
1 hr
neutral AllegroTrans : Very unsure about "legal publication"; I see the very same wording on private legal instruments, and I think "dont acte" simply means the document has become formalised by the notary
3 hrs
Trust a notaire to sound unnecessarily official (in their professional capacity at least - out of the office I've known some to be the life and soul of any party, maybe just in compensation).!
agree Andrew Bramhall : Sounds fine to me;
8 hrs
Something went wrong...
13 hrs

in unreferenced documentation

The sense of a French act is a form of documentation which can be historical, a title deed of property or a form of specifically formal writing used to record information and to serve as a legal form of report.
https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/acte/879
A literal translation suggests it's an unsubstantiated report without a reference, or a return. If it's about a court case then it has no resource or possibility of appeal or return, which renders it final.
It's about formalities found in attachments or additions to a document.
A document was produced digitally while a Notary signature is found also in the attachments, in unreferenced documentation.
(A document with an additional supplement or an attachment was produced by a digital system in a Notary's office.)
Peer comment(s):

neutral AllegroTrans : How is this useful?
17 hrs
Something went wrong...
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