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Il comp
Pietra a fasce
Feb 19 13:22
2 mos ago
16 viewers *
Italian term

procuratore ad processum

Italian to English Law/Patents Law (general) court judgment
British English suggestions preferably.
In a committal for trial, a company is listed, along with the name of the company's legal representative (in persona del rappresentante e procuratore ad processum). Does anyone have an idea as to what the term for 'procuratore ad processum' is? procedural agent/attorney...?
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 counsel
4 Trial (E&W) Counsel (Scots law) Advocate Instructed
3 -3 standing agent

Discussion

Ivana Giuliani Feb 19:
"I'm guessing you haven't read the discussion entries. The Italian uses a lot of words to say not very much, and 'ad processum' is redundant. The use of Latin is also unnecessary".

Ad processum non è legalese, a mio avviso non è ridondante, ma è importante. Ha ricevuto un mandato "ad processum, un istituto ben preciso diverso dalla legitimatio ad causam
Ivana Giuliani Feb 19:
Non è legalese, non si può liquidare il tutto con "significano la stessa cosa"! Io avrò sbagliato con agent, ma almeno ho dato un minimo di contributo con "standing"!
Ivana Giuliani Feb 19:
"procuratore ad processum" appunto, quindi è stato dato un mandato ad processum che attribuisce al procuratore la legitimatio ad processum, ossia la capacità di essere soggetto del rapporto processuale e di promuovere l'azione risarcitoria in nome e per conto del danneggiato.
philgoddard Feb 19:
That's the Latin 'legitimatio ad processum". This is "procuratore ad processum".
Ivana Giuliani Feb 19:
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/italian-to-english/law-general/18...
Ivana Giuliani Feb 19:
e quindi standing/locus standi
Angie Garbarino Feb 19:
se può servire 122 c.p.p. che attribuisce al procuratore la legitimatio ad processum, ossia la capacità di essere soggetto del rapporto processuale e di promuovere l'azione risarcitoria in nome e per conto del danneggiato.
Angie Garbarino Feb 19:
@philgoddard I agree with you, being legalese it is redundant, this is normal in Italian legalese.
philgoddard Feb 19:
As far as I can see, 'rappresentante e procuratore ad processum' is a very roundabout way of saying 'counsel'. Rappresentante and procuratore both mean the same thing.

Proposed translations

+1
3 hrs
Selected

counsel

See the discussion entries, and wait for the inevitable disagree from Adrian...
Note from asker:
Thank you, I think this covers it well :-)
Peer comment(s):
agree Andrew Bramhall : Most likely;
51 mins
And sure enough, another almost identical answer from him, including the usual irrelevancies about Scottish law! Thanks for agreeing.
agree Angie Garbarino
2 hrs
disagree Ivana Giuliani : your answer doesn't translate "procuratore ad processum", ad processum?
3 hrs
I'm guessing you haven't read the discussion entries. The Italian uses a lot of words to say not very much, and 'ad processum' is redundant. The use of Latin is also unnecessary.
Something went wrong...
2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "thank you"
-3
1 hr

standing agent

.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 ora (2024-02-19 15:08:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

ad processum=standing /locus standi

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 ora (2024-02-19 15:08:38 GMT)
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https://dictionary.cambridge.org/it/dizionario/inglese/locus...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 ora (2024-02-19 15:10:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://www.proz.com/kudoz/italian-to-english/law-general/46...
Peer comment(s):
disagree philgoddard : Your answer doesn't make sense - I think you may have misunderstood 'standing', and we don't use 'agent' in this context.
7 mins
What's the meaning of "procuratore in this context?
disagree Angie Garbarino : l'italiano dice che il rappresentante legale è rappresentato da colui che lo rappresenta al processo, Non ci sono agenti qui. Forse qualcosa ti ha portato fuori strada/figurati capita a tutti.
15 mins
sì, sì leggevo di fretta, ma io ho l'ho inteso così.
disagree Andrew Bramhall : With PG and AG
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
3 hrs

Trial (E&W) Counsel (Scots law) Advocate Instructed

collegio della difesa = Defens/ce Team

'Rappresentante and procuratore both mean the same thing.' Note that the rappresentante may be the 'Instructing Agent (Solicitor)' and not the same as the Trial Counsel Instructed. My impression is that, contrary to glib comments, every word or term in Italian legalese invariably has a precise meaning

BrE: Barrister turns into an Advocate in Scots law.

Note also a Guardian (US: Attorney) ad litem who can be instructed for someone under legal or physical disability e.g. a child or an incompetent adult.
Example sentence:

he meaning of TRIAL LAWYER is a lawyer who engages chiefly in the trial of cases before courts of original jurisdiction.

AmE: an attorney appointed by a court to act as an advocate for a minor, a proposed ward, or unknown heirs in a particular legal action (such as a divorce).

Reference:

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/english-to-italian/law-general/2894252-trial-counsel.html

Peer comment(s):
neutral Angie Garbarino : asker reuested BE
1 hr
Something went wrong...
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