| Număr de pagini: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | 从丑小鸭到白天鹅 (From the Ugly Duckling to the White Swan) Inițiatorul discuției: Red_Lily
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Wenjer Leuschel (X) 
Taiwan
Local time: 18:38
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| | Maybe an allusion to the story of The Swineherd or Cinderella | Aug 12, 2005 |
Actually I find the phrase a little strange too. But I think it is an allusion to Andersen's tales. 'princely' referring to nobility and beauty, palaces, precious things; not humble and common, mean and poor etc.It is certainly social elevation. 社会阶层 - Andersen, a common man, became an uncommon writer.In his origins poor and humble, in his writing achievements noble.
The cobbler's son becomes a princely writer - the ugly duckling becomes a beautiful swan, Cinderella be... See more Actually I find the phrase a little strange too. But I think it is an allusion to Andersen's tales. 'princely' referring to nobility and beauty, palaces, precious things; not humble and common, mean and poor etc.It is certainly social elevation. 社会阶层 - Andersen, a common man, became an uncommon writer.In his origins poor and humble, in his writing achievements noble.
The cobbler's son becomes a princely writer - the ugly duckling becomes a beautiful swan, Cinderella becomes a beautiful princess...
I think 'The Ugly Duckling becomes a Beautiful Swan' is not too bad as a title. It would be understood in China because everyone knows this story of Hans Christian Andersen's. As a well-known allusion to Andersen in China, it seems a good choice.
see:
The Swineherd by Hans Christian Andersen:
Literature Network>Hans Christian Andersen>The Swineherd ... threw off his dirty
clothes, and stepped forth in his princely robes; he looked so noble that ...
www.online-literature.com/hans_christian_andersen/968/ - 16k - Cached - Similar pages
something about transformation, and revelation of true noble character
Like 放羊的变成/原来是王子. This is the reality of fairy tales and folk tales from the past. 我想中国民间故事也有同一类故事. 也有雷风变成英雄..., another culture hero. Andersen is one, Lei Feng is another.
农民的孩子变成小提琴家, rags to riches,从贫穷到光荣,家里/国家的光荣,具有社会地位,等.
I think you can translate it without getting into 阶级斗争problems...? I hope so. ▲ Collapse
| | | | chance (X)
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| Thank you Wenjer | Aug 12, 2005 |
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 18:38
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chance (X)
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| 我正想着怎么把它翻给我女儿呢！ | Aug 12, 2005 |
Merci Wenjer
法文版译得很流畅，保持了原文的风格。大概比较一下，我会希望改动个别词。
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 18:38
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| Desiderata 已經有 32 種語文的標準版 | Aug 12, 2005 |
可惜，華文的標準版還沒出現，因為實在太難翻譯了，怎麼譯都會有人有微詞－－原文簡單明瞭，轉成華文卻不可能讓人人 (尤其是高雅的文人) 都滿意－－這，就是我覺得最可惜的地方。
不過，如果每個人都明白 "Vous êtes un enfant de l'univers, pas moins que les arbres et les étoiles ; vous avez le droit d'être ici. Et qu'il vous soit clair ou non, l'univers se déroule sans doute comme il le devrait." 也尊重別人同樣有 "le droit d'être ici" 之後，這個世界就會真的 "Avec toutes ses perfidies, ses besognes fastidieuses et ses rêves brisés, le monde est pourtant beau." 了。
| | | | chance (X)
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放心吧，我不属于你们那些”高雅的文人“。
既要有阳春白雪，又要有下里巴人，还得有既不阳春白雪也不下里巴人的人。
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
可惜，華文的標準版還沒出現，因為實在太難翻譯了，怎麼譯都會有人有微詞－－原文簡單明瞭，轉成華文卻不可能讓人人 (尤其是高雅的文人) 都滿意－－這，就是我覺得最可惜的地方。
不過，如果每個人都明白 "Vous êtes un enfant de l'univers, pas moins que les arbres et les étoiles ; vous avez le droit d'être ici. Et qu'il vous soit clair ou non, l'univers se déroule sans doute comme il le devrait." 也尊重別人同樣有 "le droit d'être ici" 之後，這個世界就會真的 "Avec toutes ses perfidies, ses besognes fastidieuses et ses rêves brisés, le monde est pourtant beau." 了。
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 18:38
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chance wrote:
放心吧，我不属于你们那些 "高雅的文人"。
既要有阳春白雪，又要有下里巴人，还得有既不阳春白雪也不下里巴人的人。
這個我知道，所以希望有機會能請你幫我推一段輪椅。:D
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wherestip
Statele Unite
Local time: 05:38
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| Some Background on Hans Christian Andersen | Aug 12, 2005 |
IMHO, it's similar to saying Loretta Lynn's a coal miner's daughter. There's no allusion here but an "allusion" to the facts.
http://www.endicott-studio.com/jMA03Summer/hans.html
Hans Christian Andersen's own life had some of the aspects of a fairy tale: he was born the son of a poor cobbler and he died a rich and famous man, celebrated around the world, the... See more IMHO, it's similar to saying Loretta Lynn's a coal miner's daughter. There's no allusion here but an "allusion" to the facts.
http://www.endicott-studio.com/jMA03Summer/hans.html
Hans Christian Andersen's own life had some of the aspects of a fairy tale: he was born the son of a poor cobbler and he died a rich and famous man, celebrated around the world, the intimate of kings and queens. Although today Andersen is primarily known as a writer of stories for children, during his lifetime he was also celebrated for his other literary works, including six novels, five travel journals, three autobiographies, and numerous poems and plays. The modern image of Andersen (as portrayed in the sugary 1952 film Hans Christian Andersen, starring Danny Kaye) is of a simple, innocent, child-like spinner of tales, a character from one of his own stories. Letters and diaries by Andersen and his contemporaries, however, draw the picture of a very different man: a sharply intelligent, ambitious writer with a hardscrabble past, a love of high society, and a tortured soul. Likewise, Andersen's fairy tales, when read in the original Danish (or in good, unabridged translations), are far more sophisticated and multi-layered than the simple children's fables they've become in all too many translated editions, retellings, and media adaptations. The writer was no innocent naif recounting fancies whispered by the fairies; he was a serious artist, a skillful literary craftsman, a shrewd observer of human nature and of the social scene of nineteenth century Denmark.
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Like the Ugly Duckling, born in a humble duck-yard yet destined to become a swan, Andersen was born the son of a poor cobbler in the city of Odense, where the family shared a single room and lived a hand-to-mouth existence. There was always food, but never quite enough; there were books on the shelf, but no money for grammar school. Andersen was sent to the Poor School instead, and expected to learn a trade.
Tall and gawky, ill at ease with other children, the boy spent his time reading, dreaming, sewing costumes out of scraps for his puppet theater, and haunting the doorway of the city's theater when traveling players came to town.
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Jonas Collin's support of Andersen was both generous and unwavering, and Collin's household provided the young man with the family and stability he craved. But although they opened their home to him, included him in family gatherings, and assisted him in countless ways, Andersen was never allowed to forget that he was not entirely one of them, for he was not a member of their class. Even in the days of his world-wide fame, when he was home with the Collins family he was still the cobbler's son from Odense . . . the Royal Theater's charity boy . . . the Little Match Girl with her nose pressed to the glass of a rich family's window.
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This mixture of praise (from abroad) and censure (at home) was hurtful and confusing to Andersen, as were the intermingled messages of acceptance and rejection he received from his upper-class friends. He grew a protective armor of wit, but kept a tally of each hurt, each blow; and in later years, no praise was ever enough to balance the scorecard. He grew into a man with two distinct and conflicting sides to his nature. In his talents he was supremely confident, speaking candidly of his high ambitions and rhapsodizing over each success ?which made him something of an oddity to his friends (and a figure of ridicule to his enemies) in a social milieu where displaying signs of personal ambition was frowned upon. Yet Andersen could also be sensitive, emotional, and hungry for approval to a debilitating degree. This made him, at times, an exasperating companion, but many found his friendship worth the trouble, for he was also capable of great warmth, humor, kindness, and moments of surprising wisdom.
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When Andersen was 33, the specter of poverty was banished from his life forever when the King of Denmark awarded the writer an annual stipend for life. Now he no longer depended on friends, or on the fickle whims of the reading public; now he was free to write as he liked ?and for a time he put aside the writing of novels, which had been his bread and butter, and concentrated on fairy tales and works for his beloved theater. Andersen wrote two hundred and ten fairy tales in all, published over the course of his life. The tales were translated across Europe, then made their way around the world, making him the best-known Scandinavian writer of his age. The doors to noble houses opened to him, and he wandered from country manor to country manor, returning periodically to Copenhagen, to the Collins and to the Royal Theater.
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In 1867, when he was 62 years old, Hans Christian Andersen returned to Odense. A choir sang, and the entire city was illuminated in his honor. "A star of fortune hangs above me," Andersen once wrote. "Thousands have deserved it more than I; often I cannot understand why this good should have been vouchsafed to me among so many thousands. But if the star should set, even while I am penning these lines, be it so; still I can say it has shone, and I have received a rich portion." Andersen died in 1875, and his stories live on.
[Edited at 2005-08-12 16:45] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Red_Lily
engleză
INIŢIATORUL SUBIECTULUI
各位前辈：
再次忠心的感谢各位垂爱，能在百忙之中抽出时间，为本人的小作指点一二。
说真的，翻译对我来说是一个全新的领域。看似简单的东西，却是茶壶煮饺子－－－倒不出来。短短的两天中，我的感受颇多。翻译的确是仁者见仁，智者见智的一项工作。有人说诗词歌赋可以后映出一个人的心灵及修养，其实我想翻译也可以的。它不只是看一个人对语言文字的掌握情况，更要涉及人文、地理、历史等多方面的知识 。都是我平日里疏于学习，才至于此。所以见到批评理应自责，反思。呵呵！我这个专业从事教育工作的人，现在真是要对的现代的教育思想好好的研究研究了。误我一人到好，要是误了一代人就坏了!
| | | | Bill Lao
Local time: 18:38
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关于那两段话的翻译，我提了几点意见，但争议最大的似乎是题目的翻译。我始终认为，把鞋匠的儿子比喻作是丑小鸭，而名作家比喻作白天鹅有点不妥。我记得国内有一部很出名的电影，片名叫“从奴隶到将军”，如果有人把名字改为“从丑小鸭到白天鹅”，一定挨人骂。
[Edited at 2005-08-12 16:24]
| | | | Last Hermit
Local time: 18:38
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| 拙译，供参考：从小鞋匠到大作家 | Aug 12, 2005 |
In his lifetime, Hans Christian Andersen was Denmark`s most famous native son. Yet even after his fairy tales won him fame and fortune, he feared he would be forgotten. He need not have worried. Denmark began eight months of celebrations to coincide with the bicentenary of his birth. And it is eager that the world take note.
汉斯·克里斯蒂安·安徒生的一生，堪称是丹麦人的骄傲。他笔下的童话故事使他名扬天下，富甲一方。即便如此，他依然�... See more In his lifetime, Hans Christian Andersen was Denmark`s most famous native son. Yet even after his fairy tales won him fame and fortune, he feared he would be forgotten. He need not have worried. Denmark began eight months of celebrations to coincide with the bicentenary of his birth. And it is eager that the world take note.
汉斯·克里斯蒂安·安徒生的一生，堪称是丹麦人的骄傲。他笔下的童话故事使他名扬天下，富甲一方。即便如此，他依然担心会被后世遗忘。其实，他大可不必。为迎接他二百周年华诞，丹麦人已准备用八个月时间来庆祝。全球目光也在翘首以待。
The festivities began on Andersen`s actual birthday, with a lively show of music ,dance and comedy inspired by his fairy tales before a crowd of some 40,000 people—including Queen Margrethe Ⅱ and her family –at the Parken National Stadium. t is followed by concerts, musicals ,ballets ,exhibitions, parades and outreach education programs costing a total of $40 million.
庆典就在安徒生生日当天举行，地点是柏根国家体育馆，出席人数有四万之众，女王玛格烈特二世一家也前往观赏。现场除了载歌载舞外，更有以安徒生童话故事为题的喜剧助庆。接下来还有一连串的音乐会、歌舞剧、芭蕾舞表演、展览、巡游和教育扶助计划等一连串活动，耗资达四千万美元之巨。
Red_Lily wrote:
各位前辈，小女子初出江湖，还望多多指教：
The Cobbler`s Son Became a Princely Author
从丑小鸭到白天鹅
In his lifetime, Hans Christian Andersen was Denmark`s most famous native son. Yet even after his fairy tales won him fame and fortune, he feared he would be forgotten. He need not have worried. Denmark began eight months of celebrations to coincide with the bicentenary of his birth. And it is eager that the world take note.
Hans Christian Andersen的一生是丹麦最蓍名的本土作家。他用童话故事嬴得了名声和财富，他还是担心被遗忘。他是不必担心的。以他的生日庆典为始，丹麦揭开了历时八个月的纪念活动的序幕。它正急切的期待着世界的关注
The festivities began on Andersen`s actual birthday, with a lively show of music ,dance and comedy inspired by his fairy tales before a crowd of some 40,000 people—including Queen Margrethe Ⅱ and her family –at the Parken National Stadium. t is followed by concerts, musicals ,ballets ,exhibitions, parades and outreach education programs costing a total of $40 million.
这个庆祝活动从安徒生的真实生日那天开始，伴随着以他的童话故事为灵感创作的音乐、舞蹈，喜剧。在帕根国家体育场开幕，有40,000多人参加，其中包括玛格丽特二世女王。活动包括演奏会，音乐会，芭蕾舞表演，展览，游行以及远程教育。总共耗资四千万美元。
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Last Hermit
Local time: 18:38
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| “need”在这里作Modal | Aug 12, 2005 |
大陆叫“情态动词”。因而没有数的变化。
stone118 wrote:
〔另，He need not have worried. 這個句子看來怪怪，動詞既非过去又非第三人稱單數型，是 typo 嗎？看來作者可能認為 Andersen 英魂猶存，直到現在還在擔心他不受歡迎呢，呵呵～〕
| | | | | Cobbler's Son becomes a Princely Poet - Interesting article from Wherestip | Aug 12, 2005 |
That was an interesting article. Good background for understanding the 'princely poet' part. The title seems to refer to both his stories and his life (patronage by the King of Denmark, love of wealth and beautiful things?) So I wonder how to translate it...
'Cobbler's Son becomes a Princely Poet' can be recognised instantly as a title in 'fairy tale or folk tale style'. In that sense it alludes to the fairy tale aspect of his life, and also those familiar with his work would proba... See more That was an interesting article. Good background for understanding the 'princely poet' part. The title seems to refer to both his stories and his life (patronage by the King of Denmark, love of wealth and beautiful things?) So I wonder how to translate it...
'Cobbler's Son becomes a Princely Poet' can be recognised instantly as a title in 'fairy tale or folk tale style'. In that sense it alludes to the fairy tale aspect of his life, and also those familiar with his work would probably recognise it as one of the themes of the fairy tales he wrote. Lily's choice is just fine I think. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lin Yang
Statele Unite
Local time: 03:38
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| 借红百合的地盘问一个信件翻译的问题。 | Aug 12, 2005 |
Lesley McLachlan wrote:
That was an interesting article. Good background for understanding the 'princely poet' part. The title seems to refer to both his stories and his life (patronage by the King of Denmark, love of wealth and beautiful things?) So I wonder how to translate it...
'Cobbler's Son becomes a Princely Poet' can be recognised instantly as a title in 'fairy tale or folk tale style'. In that sense it alludes to the fairy tale aspect of his life, and also those familiar with his work would probably recognise it as one of the themes of the fairy tales he wrote. Lily's choice is just fine I think.
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