| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Off topic: Research: Examples of client/public ignorance Thread poster: Wendy Cummings
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Irene N
United States
Local time: 13:00
English to Russian
+ ...
| Still... more on the bright side | Apr 6, 2005 |
I have to give lots of credit to the new generation of the US and Russian rocket scientists. They received their share of training in working with the interpreters. It is more and more often that I hear - Irene, I really don't know how you guys can do this - you have to think and work 4 times harder than any of us, considering that you are not the experts in the subject (meaning no degree or special training in each individual technical field we encounter) - catch it in one language, think and ... See more I have to give lots of credit to the new generation of the US and Russian rocket scientists. They received their share of training in working with the interpreters. It is more and more often that I hear - Irene, I really don't know how you guys can do this - you have to think and work 4 times harder than any of us, considering that you are not the experts in the subject (meaning no degree or special training in each individual technical field we encounter) - catch it in one language, think and understand, say it in different language and do all the same in the reverse direction, and all this right there and then. "By the end of the day I'm so tired I can't remember what he said in my own language and you are still running" - this is another phrase quite common these days. The subjects range from ballistics and power to motion control, robotics and medical issues etc, could be all together, in one day. Through the years of the ISS Program we gained a lot of respect and now we are a part of the team and considered invaluable. This is the most rewarding program I have ever worked for. We work not only with the scientists and engineers but with the flight directors and space station crews, and some of us are privileged to interpret astronauts and cosmonauts talking from the space to the ground - simo in the booth with one party flying some 360+ km above the Earth. I can't help bragging - after being in training with one of the crews for 2.5 years (as an interpreter, of course:-)), I received a phone call from onboard the ISS soon after they were launched and the IP telephone capability was added to the station systems. What an incredible feeling it was!
"Inches" mostly come from the great coordinators:-). Oh, well, there will always be black sheeps too. To hell with them:-). Our job is fantastic!
Summary: those who we translate/interpret for need training just like we need training and years of experience to become translators/interpreters. After all, this is a special field of expertise and we can't expect everyone to be an expert in this particular field. From your own experience, do you remember some engineers' faces when someone who claims to be "an interpreter" starts mumbling nonsense right in their faces! It's a 2-way road. Take it as our share of extreme work conditions, it's there by default. Keep your rates right to compensate for it:-). IMHO.
Cheers,
Irina
[Edited at 2005-04-06 05:07] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Aleksandr Okunev (X)
Local time: 21:00
English to Russian
| Training is not a must, more often a bit of decency is all you need. | Apr 6, 2005 |
IreneN wrote:
I have to give lots of credit to the new generation of the US and Russian rocket scientists. They received their share of training in working with the interpreters. ...... Summary: those who we translate/interpret for need training just like we need training and years of experience to become translators/interpreters.
Well, I used to interpret for Soviet top-rank folks visiting Iraq, currently I sometimes interpret for a visiting team from a multinational, multibillion, AAA credit rating company. The simple things like: you can't be rude to the interpreter, you should provide terminology support, you must have patience and repeat or rephrase if asked by the interpreter, are things that are part and parcel of common sense and a bit of habit rather than training, I guess it's what you mean, Irene.
Most of the VIPs I've worked for/with treated me just as their high-ranking colleagues and counterparts, I guess it's the part of their nature which took them that high up the ladder. Most of them are even capable of keeping their mouths shut at a lunch if they see me gobbling away on a steak or something.
[Edited at 2005-04-06 05:30]
| | | | Marc P (X) 
Local time: 20:00
German to English
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| Research: Examples of client/public ignorance | Apr 6, 2005 |
You've convinced me Kevin. Especially after I read Irene's post.
Marc
| | | | Irene N
United States
Local time: 13:00
English to Russian
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| And?:-) No problem, just curious:-) | Apr 6, 2005 |
MarcPrior wrote: You've convinced me Kevin. Especially after I read Irene's post. Marc
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Marc P (X)
Local time: 20:00
German to English
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Irene,
"and received... about 80 pages of what was written in English, highlighted using "select all" and turned into a final product with one click of a mouse by choosing Cyrillic font."
I thought there might be another explanation for the situation Kevin described. But the situation you describe is exactly the same.
In fact, I do remember a German acquaintance once looking over my shoulder whilst I was formatting some text in Word, and gleefully pointing ... See more Irene,
"and received... about 80 pages of what was written in English, highlighted using "select all" and turned into a final product with one click of a mouse by choosing Cyrillic font."
I thought there might be another explanation for the situation Kevin described. But the situation you describe is exactly the same.
In fact, I do remember a German acquaintance once looking over my shoulder whilst I was formatting some text in Word, and gleefully pointing to the "language" attribute, thinking that the text could be translated simply by selecting the language attribute. But that is not really so implausible, if you have heard of machine translation but are not familiar with word processors (this was some years ago). The real misconception is that machine translation is translation.
Marc ▲ Collapse
| | | | Irene N
United States
Local time: 13:00
English to Russian
+ ...
| Thanks, Marc:-) | Apr 6, 2005 |
I was thinking about my last post when I asked the question. Our life is "zebrish" - black and white, great and ridiculous weaven so tightly together, just like in that famous expression. Still, I love my job.
Best regards,
Irina
| | | | Wendy Cummings
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:00
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | so why do we do it? | Apr 6, 2005 |
IreneN wrote:
Still, I love my job.
That is a really interesting point i'd also like to pick up on. There are all these problems, and such ignorance out there that it truly amazes me; leaves me speechless. And even though i hope my research can draw some useful conclusions and suggestions, we all know that educating the general public is an impossible task.
So a good question therefore is: even though public ignorance makes our job so much harder and frustating, and the words 'brick wall/head/hitting' frequently come to mind - we still all do it. Why?
| | | | Nicolette Ri (X)
Local time: 20:00
French to Dutch
+ ...
| Shareholders' meeting and 20.000 words overnight | Apr 6, 2005 |
Some months ago, I was contacted by a client who asked me if I could do a transcription + translation of an English/Dutch shareholders meeting. The meeting should last about 3 or 4 hours and he estimated himself that this would result in 20.000 words to be typed out and then translated into French. I would receive the cassettes or audio files thursday afternoon 18.00 o'clock and everything should be ready friday morning at 12.00 o'clock for making the press releases. He was just asking if I coul... See more Some months ago, I was contacted by a client who asked me if I could do a transcription + translation of an English/Dutch shareholders meeting. The meeting should last about 3 or 4 hours and he estimated himself that this would result in 20.000 words to be typed out and then translated into French. I would receive the cassettes or audio files thursday afternoon 18.00 o'clock and everything should be ready friday morning at 12.00 o'clock for making the press releases. He was just asking if I could do that or if he should divide the job and take a second person? I protested but he told me that this kind of work was quite normal for interpreters (for me, a simple translator, it was new). I don't know if he found someone, but in each case the job has been turned down for other reasons.
Thank you all for your stories. "You should just type it out in the other language" is a frequent one! ▲ Collapse
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Irene N
United States
Local time: 13:00
English to Russian
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| Why does anyone love his/her job? | Apr 6, 2005 |
Wendy, frankly, this point is pretty pointless, I think.
Why do we drive our cars and fall in love with it while knowing certain statistics about car crashes? Why does the new Shuttle crew can't wait to fly after Columbia tragedy?
From top to bottom:
You are God giving people a gift of speech all over again.
It's a good money:-)
The middle for me:
No office 9 to 5 for 52 weeks a year, interesting people to meet, intere... See more Wendy, frankly, this point is pretty pointless, I think.
Why do we drive our cars and fall in love with it while knowing certain statistics about car crashes? Why does the new Shuttle crew can't wait to fly after Columbia tragedy?
From top to bottom:
You are God giving people a gift of speech all over again.
It's a good money:-)
The middle for me:
No office 9 to 5 for 52 weeks a year, interesting people to meet, interesting subjects to learn, great travel when you are also an interpreter, my cats with me in my home office, no idiot manager pushing me around.
I can't imagine any profession that could pride itself on having a list of positive sides only.
Plus, in this forums we all go for extremes to help you with the most pronounced examples. It's not all that catastrophic. Our doctors often go speechless when they learn the "methods" of self-treatment some educated people invent following God knows whose advices:-). Look at tons of "100 kilos in 30-days" weight loss pills being bought and swallowed every year by the modern educated professionals:-).
Humans are dumb in general, and self-destruction is in our nature:-):-):-). Let's have as much fun as we can with what we do best:-) ▲ Collapse
| | | | Wendy Cummings
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:00
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | devil's advocate | Apr 6, 2005 |
Thanks for those comments. I'm just trying to play devil's advocate a bit and provoke responses from people. All part of my research tactics! I'm in the stages of trying to gather as much information, and as many view points as possible. I may not use it all, but it helps give me a bigger picture.
| | | | Terry Gilman
Germany
Local time: 20:00
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
| Current Austrian case in which U. Eco's translators are getting satisfaction | Apr 6, 2005 |
Wendy, This is an interesting thread, thank you for opening it.
Pinched this from a posting on the British Council listserv for literary translators (I am a lurker).
The discussion itself is bound to be in German, but because it is about Umberto Eco's translators, you may find reports on it in other languages. Their names are Dr. Friederike Hausmann and Dr. Martin Pfeiffer.
===
Following a lawsuit against a leading Austrian paper that ... See more Wendy, This is an interesting thread, thank you for opening it.
Pinched this from a posting on the British Council listserv for literary translators (I am a lurker).
The discussion itself is bound to be in German, but because it is about Umberto Eco's translators, you may find reports on it in other languages. Their names are Dr. Friederike Hausmann and Dr. Martin Pfeiffer.
===
Following a lawsuit against a leading Austrian paper that had once again "forgotten" to mention the names of the translators who set Umberto Eco's "La storia della bellezza" into German -- of which Der Standard printed two full pages in its weekend album -- the two colleagues received handsome damages compensation *and* the paper was obliged to run an article on
the whole case for 30 days, including a discussion forum where readers can post their opinions. This forum started today -- on
http://derstandard.at/?url=/?id=2003586 -- but it did so on the wrong foot.
Or maybe the first few contributors were editorial staff, but they voiced their disagreement at the very fact that one would make a legal case out of such a no-name "pettiness". (This, mind you, after I have written and read countless letters to editors about this rude behavior by our creative colleagues, the journalists.)
If anyone is interested in watching the debate, or even taking part, save the above link, it takes you directly there (or go to http://derstandard.at/ and click yourself through to "Kultur", there's a link to "Vergleich" =agreement).
===later
If I find something interesting about the case itself, e.g.,, the size of the damage award, I'll post it. The posts to the forum that DerStandard was forced to set up are so far the usual 2 camps as the person above mentioned: 1) this is trivial, the damages were overblown and 2) it's not the money, it's the principle of the thing.
One person wondered if this would start a trend to lawsuits and damage awards for honest mistakes as opposed to malicious/negligent ones. The poster considered this a bad thing, and most translators would probably agree if they've been threatened or taken to court over a "bad" translation.
The obtuseness of the very first poster is what stays in my mind: he asked if the truth might be that no one cares or wants to see the names of the translators (copyright law notwithstanding). Austrian newspaper readers and presumably editors are supposed to be very sophisticated (well, from a German pov). How pathetic not to be able to imagine that one's readership could contain translators and interpreters who are very interested in knowing who the translators are and how they work, and not just in having a window on a story by Umberto Eco (with all due respect). I discovered Anthea Bell's translations of some of W.G. Sebald's work in the "New Yorker," and was so delighted I took out a subscription even though I have a friend who sends me his copies every other week.
[Edited at 2005-04-06 16:45]
[Edited at 2005-04-06 17:17]
[Edited at 2005-04-06 17:20]
[Edited at 2005-04-06 17:23] ▲ Collapse
| | | | NancyLynn
Canada
Local time: 14:00
Member (2002)
French to English
+ ...
Moderator of this forum | Oh, to be able to understand German | Apr 6, 2005 |
Thanks Terry for this fascinating tidbit. I'll look around to see if I can find something in English or French or even Spanish, because I'd like to follow this one.
Perhaps I can click on the German link and set the language to English - that should do the trick
Nancy
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Wendy Cummings
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:00
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | this is great stuff, keep it coming! | Apr 6, 2005 |
NancyLynn wrote: Thanks Terry for this fascinating tidbit. I'll look around to see if I can find something in English or French or even Spanish, because I'd like to follow this one. Perhaps I can click on the German link and set the language to English - that should do the trick Nancy
Ditto, i'll definitely follow this one up too, as it should provide good fodder.
Nancy - could you possibly let me know if you find any En/Fr/Sp articles, as I don't read German either! I'll have a search myself also later.
| | | | Ian M-H (X)
United States
Local time: 14:00
German to English
+ ...
| Lack of planning by clients | Apr 6, 2005 |
This one's not a horror story and not amusing either, but it's up to date (happened to me quite recently) and - sadly - typical.
12 noon: agency requests translation of 15 words in 15 minutes. Okay...
The job turned out to be slogans from three separate leaflets. Typical marketing stuff, in this case rather good slogans which all involved a play on words and fitted the photographs (which were at least sent to me, so the client didn't do everything wrong and the agency w... See more This one's not a horror story and not amusing either, but it's up to date (happened to me quite recently) and - sadly - typical.
12 noon: agency requests translation of 15 words in 15 minutes. Okay...
The job turned out to be slogans from three separate leaflets. Typical marketing stuff, in this case rather good slogans which all involved a play on words and fitted the photographs (which were at least sent to me, so the client didn't do everything wrong and the agency was on the ball...).
The puns/gags didn't translate particularly well and the deadline both limited my own creativity and ruled out asking others for inspiration (e.g. via KudoZ).
The point is that the campaign, even if it only runs locally, will be costing the client thousands, probably tens of thousands, for design, photos, original copy, printing and distribution. But the translated part of the campaign will be considerably less effective than it might have been if the client had realised that what they needed in this case wasn't a translator at the end of the process but a language professional as a partner at a much earlier stage.
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| | | | Clare Barnes
Sweden
Local time: 20:00
Swedish to English
+ ...
| As you say, typical... | Apr 6, 2005 |
I had a situation at the end of last year where I actually was involved from an early stage, but they kept on changing the text. In the end I was standing next to the guy doing the Swedish layout (having made a 100-mile round trip to get to the design agency's office), while the client spoke to him on the phone making alterations to the Swedish text... he then printed it out and while I made notes on the paper copies he had to type in the changes that I was making into his computerised version, ... See more I had a situation at the end of last year where I actually was involved from an early stage, but they kept on changing the text. In the end I was standing next to the guy doing the Swedish layout (having made a 100-mile round trip to get to the design agency's office), while the client spoke to him on the phone making alterations to the Swedish text... he then printed it out and while I made notes on the paper copies he had to type in the changes that I was making into his computerised version, print them out and pile them up for me to proof-read. All this the day before it had to go to press... (and including those new snappy little slogans that have to sound "just right").
At the end of the day those of us who could still speak coherently, in any language, had a few things to say about our client's behaviour. It also gave me a chance to "educate" the design agency in how I'd like clients to behave!
Still, the client paid for my translation, my time (and for a lot of work they decided to cut out of the brochure in the end). An additional benefit was that the design agency now sends me work and are themselves great to work with - learning from others' mistakes, I think. ▲ Collapse
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