| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9] > | 关于专利翻译 Thread poster: Ying Wang
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Ying Wang 
United States
Local time: 17:13
English to Chinese
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TOPIC STARTER
Renquan Yang wrote:
那现在入行的人咋办？只能跟进潮流，在手工翻译的同时，学习掌握CAT工具，并力争玩熟练，这样两手都要有，才会更有竞争力。这就像在美国生活，如果不会开车，大概生活就成问题一样。
正在努力。
| | | | Ying Wang
United States
Local time: 17:13
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
ysun wrote: 《机器翻译的前世今生》那篇文章有些断章取义。以下链接就是 Ray Kurzweil 接受该报采访时所说的话。我也来“断章取义”一下： http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nataly-kelly/ray-kurzweil-on-translati_b_875745.html
However, Kurzweil does not believe that translation technologies will replace human translators and interpreters. …
Because opportunities are changing, translation providers with inflexible business models that do not incorporate technology may indeed be at risk. However, Kurzweil sees a bright future for the language industry in general. "I think the demand for language is going to increase," he pointed out. "These tools are going to increase humans' ability, with the help of machines, to command greater ability to use language." A recent report from Common Sense Advisory validates this assertion, showing that the language services industry is growing at a fast pace, and that the demand for translation even grew throughout the economic downturn.
无论如何，十五年之后我连红薯都不卖了。所以毫不担心这种预言！ 
谢谢您的链接，我已经读了全文。那个与数字音乐的类比，让我深受启迪。
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 16:13
English to Chinese
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专利中有些法律方面的段落，要想深刻理解并准确无误且通顺地翻译出来，还真不容易。所以，应该如 Renquan 所说，按照律师标准收费（当然这只是一种美好的愿望 ）。如下段落出现在很多专利之中：
The foregoing discussion of the disclosure has been presented for purposes of illustration and description. The foregoing is not intended to limit the disclo... See more 专利中有些法律方面的段落，要想深刻理解并准确无误且通顺地翻译出来，还真不容易。所以，应该如 Renquan 所说，按照律师标准收费（当然这只是一种美好的愿望）。如下段落出现在很多专利之中：
The foregoing discussion of the disclosure has been presented for purposes of illustration and description. The foregoing is not intended to limit the disclosure to the form or forms disclosed herein. In the foregoing Detailed Description for example, various features of the disclosure are grouped together in one or more embodiments for the purpose of streamlining the disclosure. This method of disclosure is not to be interpreted as reflecting an intention that the claimed disclosure requires more features than are expressly recited in each claim. Rather, as the following claims reflect, inventive aspects lie in less than all features of a single foregoing disclosed embodiment. Thus, the following claims are hereby incorporated into this Detailed Description, with each claim standing on its own as a separate preferred embodiment of the disclosure.
Moreover though the description of the disclosure has included description of one or more embodiments and certain variations and modifications, other variations and modifications are within the scope of the disclosure, e.g., as may be within the skill and knowledge of those in the art, after understanding the present disclosure. It is intended to obtain rights which include alternative embodiments to the extent permitted, including alternate, interchangeable and/or equivalent structures, functions, ranges or steps to those claimed, whether or not such alternate, interchangeable and/or equivalent structures, functions, ranges or steps are disclosed herein, and without intending to publicly dedicate any patentable subject matter. ▲ Collapse
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 16:13
English to Chinese
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| lie in less than all features | Jul 18, 2013 |
Steve,
能否请你告诉我，你怎样理解上面第一段中的如下句子，尤其是，"lie in less than all features"? Thanks!
"Rather, as the following claims reflect, inventive aspects lie in less than all features of a single foregoing disclosed embodiment."
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 16:13
Chinese to English
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| Interpreting Legalese | Jul 18, 2013 |
ysun wrote:
Steve,
能否请你告诉我，你怎样理解上面第一段中的如下句子，尤其是，"lie in less than all features"? Thanks!
"Rather, as the following claims reflect, inventive aspects lie in less than all features of a single foregoing disclosed embodiment."
Yueyin,
I'm really not that good at legalese, especially when it comes to trying to put together the wording of Chinese legalese(You can't come up with something that you've never seen before). So I'll just describe in layman's terms what I understand the gist of this sentence to be ...
The Detailed Description has a combination of the invention aspects the patent is claiming. So when it comes to the individual claims, they each stand on their own merit, and do not necessarily cover or include the other claims that are also represented by the embodiment described in the Detailed Description. Hence the phrase "lie in less than all features".
I know this is a very clumsy way of explaining my understanding of the sentence, but does that make any sense to you?
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 16:13
Chinese to English
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| "inventive aspects lie in less than all features of a single foregoing disclosed embodiment" | Jul 18, 2013 |
Yueyin,
Please let me know if there are any hangups. I'm sure through some discussion, we can figure out and clarify what the paragraph conveys in plain English. 
BTW, "lie" in this context has the meaning of "exist", "consist" ...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lie 7 a : to have place : exist (the choice lay between fighting or surrendering) b : consist, belong (the success of the book lies in its direct style) (responsibility lay with the adults)
IMO, "lie in" 中文可以翻成 "(存)在于"、"蕴含于" ...
[Edited at 2013-07-18 22:47 GMT]
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 16:13
Chinese to English
+ ...
Rather, as the following claims reflect, inventive aspects lie in less than all features of a single foregoing disclosed embodiment."
相反地， 可以从下列的各项产权要求看到，各项产权的发明涉及面只是以上公开的某一实施方案全部特征的局部。
Please forgive the layman terminology, but that's my basic understanding of the sentence in a nutshell.
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 16:13
English to Chinese
+ ...
wherestip wrote:
IMO, "lie in" 中文可以翻成 "(存)在于"、"蕴含于" ...
Steve,
What you said makes perfect sense to me, and the translation "蕴含于" is an excellent choice of words. Thank you so much!
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ysun
United States
Local time: 16:13
English to Chinese
+ ...
wherestip wrote:
Rather, as the following claims reflect, inventive aspects lie in less than all features of a single foregoing disclosed embodiment."
相反地， 可以从下列的各项产权要求看到，各项产权的发明涉及面只是以上公开的某一实施方案全部特征的局部。
Please forgive the layman terminology, but that's my basic understanding of the sentence in a nutshell.
Steve,
I think your translation is essentially correct although the wording may be further polished. For the term "claims" as used in patents, we usually say "权利要求" in simplified Chinese. Let’s see what the other colleagues have to suggest. Thanks!
[Edited at 2013-07-19 00:05 GMT]
| | | | Jinhang Wang
China
Local time: 05:13
English to Chinese
+ ...
前辈，我仔细研读了这段文字，结合我查阅的资料，尝试给出以下解读，供您参考：
在您贴出的两段文字中，除了 This method of disclosure is not to.... 和... for the purpose of streamlining the disclosure 中的 disclosure 应保留外，其他地方使用的 disclosure 应该改为 invention 才更准确些，也更容易理解些。可参见�... See more 前辈，我仔细研读了这段文字，结合我查阅的资料，尝试给出以下解读，供您参考：
在您贴出的两段文字中，除了 This method of disclosure is not to.... 和... for the purpose of streamlining the disclosure 中的 disclosure 应保留外，其他地方使用的 disclosure 应该改为 invention 才更准确些，也更容易理解些。可参见：
http://books.google.com/patents/WO2012112514A1?cl=en
这两段话的主要意思是说，文中所述的内容仅用于说明的目的，其发明的权利要求范围并不仅限于文中所述的形式，各式各样的发明特征被归类组合为一种或多种实施例，以简化/方便公开（其实就是便于叙述、行文）。
但是，对于这样的公开方式，发明人担心引起读者的误解，误以为声称的发明需要（必须具备）超出各项权利要求中明确列举的特征（才能构成其发明），因为发明人声称 The foregoing is not intended to limit the disclosure to the form or forms disclosed herein ；而发明人的实际意思是，正好相反，其 inventive aspects（发明特征/创新方面）无需具备上述公开的实施例中的全部特征。
这里的 其 inventive aspects 可以看做发明人的独创方面，构成其发明的本质内容，虽然你可以在其他细枝末节方面修改，但是还是属于其发明权利要求范围之内。
“This method of disclosure is not to be interpreted as reflecting an intention that the claimed disclosure requires more features than are expressly recited in each claim. Rather, as the following claims reflect, inventive aspects lie in less than all features of a single foregoing disclosed embodiment. ” 这两句话可以看做插入语，只是发明人为了避免读者误解而做的澄清。结合上下文还是可以理解的。
lie in less than all features 的翻译可以考虑：创新方面不在于具备/拥有....的全部特征，或者“创新方面仅存在于/蕴含于（前辈 Steve 的译法）.....的部分特征中”等。这句话有点难翻，还可以斟酌。
不当之处，请大家多多指教！
[Edited at 2013-07-19 03:36 GMT]
[Edited at 2013-07-19 04:02 GMT]
[Edited at 2013-07-19 09:04 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 16:13
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Disclosure vs. Invention | Jul 19, 2013 |
J.H. Wang wrote: 前辈，我仔细研读了这段文字，结合我查阅的资料，尝试给出以下解读，供您参考： 在您贴出的两段文字中，除了 This method of disclosure is not to....，... for the purpose of streamlining the disclosure 和 ....are within the scope of the disclosure 中的 disclosure 应保留外，其他地方使用的 disclosure 应该改为 invention 才更准确些，也更容易理解些。可参见： http://books.google.com/patents/WO2012112514A1?cl=en
J.H. Wang:
谢谢你花时间研究这两段文字。你分析得很好。不过，以后叫我老孙即可，不要叫前辈，也不必称“您”。
这两段话是我在网上搜索专利时偶而找到的。全文如下：
http://www.google.com/patents/WO2013075010A1?cl=en
实际上，若把这两段文字中所有的 disclosure 都改为 invention，也是说得过去的，网上也有不少人在这样用。估计这是两派人之间的不同意见，就如在 Claims 部分有人主张用 characterized in，有人主张用 wherein 一样。两者都对应于中文的“其特征在于”。客户让我翻译的英文专利中基本上都用 invention，与这两段话对应的部分也要简单些。
这里的 disclosure 应该如何译成中文？能否译为“所公开的技术”或“技术秘密”，或者干脆译为“发明”？在有的上下文中，disclosure 也相当于 specification （说明书）。至于动词 disclose，通常大陆译为“公开”，台湾译为“披露”。
Longman Dictionary 关于 disclosure 的解释是 "a secret that someone tells people, or the act of telling this secret”. 所以“technical disclosure” 应该就相当于 “technical secret”。
http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/disclosure
至于其它部分，请容我以后再讨论。
| | | | Jinhang Wang
China
Local time: 05:13
English to Chinese
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| disclosure 的探讨 | Jul 19, 2013 |
我刚把前面的帖子更新了一下，发现有个疏忽。就像我在前面的帖子中的链接中显示的，....are within the scope of the disclosure 中的 disclosure 最好也用 invention 代替。另外两句话中的应该保留。
disclosure 在大陆一般翻译成“公开”，可以参见：
http://baike.baidu.com/view/8256265.htm
�... See more 我刚把前面的帖子更新了一下，发现有个疏忽。就像我在前面的帖子中的链接中显示的，....are within the scope of the disclosure 中的 disclosure 最好也用 invention 代替。另外两句话中的应该保留。
disclosure 在大陆一般翻译成“公开”，可以参见：
http://baike.baidu.com/view/8256265.htm
公开与 invention （发明）意思还是有很大的差别的。
***写到这里，我忽然想到，也许作者这里仅仅是公开其专利申请，也就是说，其申请尚未被批准，因此还不能称其为法律意义上的“发明”，所以作者一律用了 disclosure。这个想法有待于更熟悉专利业务的朋友证实或证否。我不打算花时间研究了。***
不过，即使该专利申请被批准后，我觉得其有中的 disclosure 似乎也不能用 invention 代替。比如，
for the purpose of streamlining the disclosure.
This method of disclosure
新牛津英汉双解大词典对 disclosure 的定义有：
1. the action of making new or secret information known，公开、公布、披露（行为）
2. [count noun]a fact, especially a secret, that is made known. 公开、公布、披露的事实 ▲ Collapse
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Jinhang Wang
China
Local time: 05:13
English to Chinese
+ ...
从这句话：This method of disclosure is not to be interpreted as reflecting an intention that the claimed disclosure requires more features than are expressly recited in each claim. Rather, as the following claims reflect, inventive aspects lie in less than all features of a single foregoing disclosed embodiment. 似乎可以看出，“the claimed disclosure” 与 “inventive aspects"大致说的是一个东西。
claimed disclosure 如果改为 claimed invention 就是声�... See more 从这句话：This method of disclosure is not to be interpreted as reflecting an intention that the claimed disclosure requires more features than are expressly recited in each claim. Rather, as the following claims reflect, inventive aspects lie in less than all features of a single foregoing disclosed embodiment. 似乎可以看出，“the claimed disclosure” 与 “inventive aspects"大致说的是一个东西。
claimed disclosure 如果改为 claimed invention 就是声称的发明，
inventive aspects 可以理解为创新的方面，或者是发明性的方面。
从逻辑上看，二者也大致是一回事儿。 ▲ Collapse
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 16:13
Chinese to English
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| "lie in less than all features" | Jul 19, 2013 |
J.H. Wang wrote:
lie in less than all features 的翻译可以考虑：创新方面不在于具备/拥有....的全部特征，或者“创新方面仅存在于/蕴含于（前辈 Steve 的译法）.....的部分特征中”等。这句话有点难翻，还可以斟酌。
J.H.,
IMO, it's better to adhere to the original sentence structure because it is legalese after all.
不在于 and 在于 are direct opposites, so I think although you achieve the same effect in the end by tweaking the rest of the partial sentence in Chinese, something might still be lost or amiss. 打个比方吧： 我想 "lie in" 具体在这句子中翻成 "构成" 也是可以的，但 “构成“ 和 "不构成" 的概念是非常不同的。
Anyway, the verbiage of these two passages is standard legalese, as Yueyin pointed out. It basically tries to exclude others from tweaking minor details of (the aggregate of) the embodiment(s) disclosed, and filing their own claim of a patent. Instead, all the individual claims stand on their own merits independently. The objective is for the entire patent to cover as extensive as possible the inventive ground/reach of the disclosure.
[Edited at 2013-07-19 14:23 GMT]
| | | | Ying Wang
United States
Local time: 17:13
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
感谢ysun前辈提供的英文专利材料。对我来说，这正是宝贵的学习机会。我试着翻译了一下，发现很拗口，自己都读不懂。因此，厚着脸皮，顶着锅盖，贴在这里。请前辈们指正。译文如下：
前述的针对技术公开的讨论旨在说明与描述。先前所述无意将技术公开仅限于在此公开的表格内容。例如，在前面的详细描述中，该技术公开中的各种功能被组合在一个或多个实�... See more 感谢ysun前辈提供的英文专利材料。对我来说，这正是宝贵的学习机会。我试着翻译了一下，发现很拗口，自己都读不懂。因此，厚着脸皮，顶着锅盖，贴在这里。请前辈们指正。译文如下：
前述的针对技术公开的讨论旨在说明与描述。先前所述无意将技术公开仅限于在此公开的表格内容。例如，在前面的详细描述中，该技术公开中的各种功能被组合在一个或多个实例中，以便于其内容流畅地公开。这种公开方法不能被诠释为反映出一种意图，即所主张的技术公开需要更多的功能，多于在每项权利要求中所明确叙述的。相反地，如以下权利要求所示，创新项并不包含前面公开的某单一实例中的全部功能。因此，特此将以下权利要求合并进此详细说明，每一项权利要求独立地成为本技术公开的一个单独的首选实例。
此外，虽然该技术公开的描述已经包括了对一项或更多项实例以及针对某些变化和修改的描述，其它变化和修改也在该技术公开范围内。例如，在理解了现有技术公开之后，有可能被采纳进那些艺术界人士的知识技能范围内。对技术公开的描述，其目的是获取包括在许可程度内的可选实例的权利，包括变更的、可互换的，和/或那些权利要求的同等结构、作用、范围 或步骤。无论该变更的、可互换的，和/或同等结构、作用、范围 或步骤是否在此公开，也无需有意去公开贡献任何可以申请专利的内容。
[Edited at 2013-07-19 14:13 GMT]
[Edited at 2013-07-19 22:53 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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