Feb 9 15:23
3 mos ago
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Spanish term

ser / estar

Spanish to English Social Sciences Philosophy
Hello everyone!

I’ve come across a problem while translating a philosophy text with the terms “ser” and “estar” in the combination “ser”, “estar” and “parecer”, which show up together in different contexts in my text. The text is on the ideological inscription of free subjects and is quite dense and difficult.

If anyone knows where this concept originally comes from, that could be helpful. I've used terms in their original language in other places in the text, like Heidegger's Sein and Seiende.

ORIGINAL EXAMPLE 1
Si no reprodujéramos nuestro modo de vida entre todos/as, a diario, no habría manera de SER, ESTAR Y PARECER; tres verbos atributivos que precisan de un sujeto gramatical, pero, sobre todo, cuando se trata de “nosotros”, la pregunta es si ese “sujeto” (persona, cosa, ente), donde parece no haber nada más que pura abstracción conceptual sobre la lengua como “sistema” o “estructura”, ha existido siempre; y la respuesta es un rotundo no.

ROUGH DRAFT EXAMPLE 1
If we did not reproduce our way of life together every day, there would be no possibility of BEING, EXISTING AND SEEMING, three attributive verbs that require a grammatical subject. However, especially when it comes to ‘we’, the question arises as to whether this ‘subject’ (person, thing, or entity), where there seems to be nothing but a pure conceptual abstraction about language as a ‘system’ or ‘structure’, has always existed, and the answer is a clear no.

ORIGINAL EXAMPLE 2
Por supuesto, durante toda la historia del Islam, como sucede con las demás religiones, la violencia religiosa es una constante; pero aquí hablamos del especial impacto de las relaciones sociales capitalistas (y su norma inconsciente: el sujeto libre) en sociedades cuyo discurso -como el feudal- es todavía organicista, lo cual supone, como rasgo relevante, el hecho de que en él se excluye (repetimos, solo discursivamente, porque, en la práctica, esto es ya imposible) la idea de que la subjetividad pertenezca al individuo (y en este sentido dicho discurso niega su libertad de SER, ESTAR Y PARECER en sí mismo libre), etc.

ROUGH DRAFT EXAMPLE 2
Of course, religious violence is a constant in the history of Islam, as with other religions; but here we are concerned with the particular effects of capitalist social relations (and their unconscious norm): the free subject) in societies whose discourse —like the feudal society— is still organic, implying as a relevant feature the fact that it excludes —again, only discursively, since this is impossible in practice— the idea that subjectivity belongs to the individual (and in this sense such a discourse denies the individual's freedom to BE, TO EXIST AND TO SEEM FREE), etc.

ORIGINAL EXAMPLE 2
Piénsenlo, señores, y concluirán que la condición de ser en absoluto implica la materia; significa solo la conexión entre atributo y sujeto, expresa meramente una relación.” (p.124, la traducción y el subrayado son nuestros.) La materia física pertenece a la materialidad social, pero no es pertinente para ella. Lo pertinente es la relación entre EL SER, ESTAR, EL PARECER y el sujeto.

ROUGH DRAFT EXAMPLE 3
Consider it, gentlemen, and you will admit that a state of being by no means implies substance, and means only the bonds attributed to the subject, expresses only a relation.' (English translation by William Patten on behalf of Project Gutenberg. Italics are the author's.) Physical matter belongs to social materiality, but is not relevant to it. What is relevant is the relationship between BEING, EXISTING, SEEMING and the subject.

Discussion

O G V Feb 10:
Precisamente por eso hay que añadir una explicación o descripción de esa diferencia no activa en inglés (pero sin duda comprensible o explicable).
philgoddard Feb 9:
English doesn't make a distinction between temporary and permanent states.
O G V Feb 9:
Ser y estar Ser alude directamente a lo que se considera existencia o existencial y estar es más específico de circunstancias o condiciones.

En su combinación con libre, ser lo eleva a absoluto mientras que con estar se trata de un cambio (antes o en el otro lugar no lo estaba).

Se me ocurre parafrasearlo en inglés asi:

Being free vs. feeling free/being liberated/having been set free...



Something like that
@Phil I felt the same way at first, but the problem is that 'being' and 'existing' do not mean the same as 'ser' and 'estar'. Both 'being' and 'existing' translate as 'ser'. See the following link:

https://bitacorapi.blogia.com/2012/082701-entre-el-ser-y-el-...
philgoddard Feb 9:
It seems like you've already answered your question - 'being' and 'existing'. But since these are synonyms in English, you could combine the two into one and simply say 'being'.
@Ben In Spanish, sentences that contain a copular verb (ser, estar, parecer) are made up of the subject, verb and 'atributo'.

Él (subject)
es (copular verb)
mi amigo ('atributo')

In English, an 'atributo' is a 'subject complement'.

In your original sample 2, the translation of 'significa solo la conexión entre atributo y sujeto' would be something like 'means only the connection between the subject complement and subject'.

Proposed translations

13 mins
Spanish term (edited): ser / estar

being (essential, always, objetive state), being (circumstance, temporary, subjective state)...

Añado parecer porque puede resultar relevante.

Ser libre es o se presenta como algo definitorio, indudable, indiscutible, objetivo, condición esencial y permanente o atemporal.

Estar libre es algo circunstancial, discutible, suele usarse cuando esa libertad es concedida o se consigue, se puede considerar más subjetivo, puede ser temporal o relacionado con un momento o etapa.

Parecer libre sugiere apariencia (appearence), algo superficial, no profundo, como cumplir unas condiciones o convenciones que se consideran suficientes para aparentar la libertad pero no como para tenerla de verdad.

Ojalá oriente

Saludos

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Note added at 20 mins (2024-02-09 15:44:13 GMT)
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Para traducirlo es necesario o conveniente aludir a la diferencia entre los dos verbos en español.

Se debe explicar que ser remite a algo esencial (identidad, definición intrínseca) y estar es circunstancial (estado pasajero o temporal).

Ejemplo
Ser de un lugar: origen, nacimiento, nacionalidad, algo intrínseco de la persona.

Estar en un lugar: situación, ubicación, presencia temporal u ocasional.

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1 hr

being / being there

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Dasein

"Dasein, (German: literally, “being there”) in the ontology and metaphysics of the German existentialist philosopher Martin Heidegger (1889–1976), the form of Being or existence of the human individual."



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Note added at 1 hr (2024-02-09 16:48:54 GMT)
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https://riunet.upv.es/bitstream/handle/10251/89182/1119-3599...

https://www.e-ir.info/2022/04/07/latin-american-antiphilosop...


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Note added at 1 hr (2024-02-09 17:11:02 GMT)
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://scholarworks.iu....

"4 Da-Sein, Estar, Utcatha
Heidegger’s term (Da-Sein), as interpreted by Kusch, refers to Being (Sein) and to “there” (Da). As Heidegger already separates from the history of metaphysics in Sein und Zeit, “Da” becomes the fundamental aspect for the recovery of the question of being. The “Da” of Da-Sein refers to the temporalizing movement of the distinct being that is Da-Sein, and this “Da” occurs as a pre-rational
dwelling or being-in-the-world. And here is the crucial point for Kusch: this being-in-the-world or dwelling happens out of a being-thrown and fallenness.
Let us briefly make the difference between Kusch and Heidegger more explicit: As Kusch explains, according to Heidegger, being-there (Da-Sein) occurs as a temporal dynamic in which our consciousness and pre-reflexive ways of being are oriented by what lies ahead of our immediate present and behind it."

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Note added at 3 hrs (2024-02-09 18:24:21 GMT)
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With regard to your question as to whether Heidegger has a term that expresses a permanent, non-transitory state of being, I am afraid I do not know. This "ser/estar" question is a really tough one. I suggested "being there" for "estar" because this is how I have seen it translated in several philosophical texts, including the ones I have already sent you. Below is one more example. I do realise that this has been written by a non-native English speaker, but I hope it helps.

https://philpeople.org/profiles/jorge-balladares/publication...

"Is it possible ontologically to think about education? Can the ontological category of “being” allow us to think of an educational human being? How can the ontological category of “being there” contextualize the educational reality in Latin America? These questions will guide an ontological reflection based on Latin-American philosophical categories “being” and “being there” for thinking about education."

You may also find the following helpful:

https://bitacorapi.blogia.com/2012/082701-entre-el-ser-y-el-...
Note from asker:
I considered using Heidegger's terms, but the author also has sections on Heidegger and I'm concerned about making the reader think he's referencing the sections on Heidegger, which I'm not at all sure if he is or not (I'm leaning towards not). I'm also not sure if Dasein has the transitory, temporary meaning of estar (contrasted with the constant, permanent ser). Does Heidegger maybe have a term I could use as a contrast, one that expresses a permanent, non-transitory state of being? Thanks for your help!! : )
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1 day 8 hrs

to be continually / to be changeable

The first category of being is associated with permanent characteristics that don't change, such as the colour of my eyes and other attributes of personal identity. The second category of being is associated generally with descriptions that can change, such as the state of my health. If I don't feel well today I expect I should feel better tomorrow. Also, the second one is about temporary states, conditions or being in a place. I'll be at home tomorrow morning but later I'll be in another town until I return home again. I might be angry when I read the news but then I should be happy when I find some money.
On a more serious philosophical thought, the condition and the essence of being could involve a comparison between an appearance and an internal existence with the profound effects of the mind.
Example sentence:

La condición y la esencia del ser trata quizá de comparar la apariencia con la existencia interna y el efecto profundo de la mente.

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2 days 36 mins
Spanish term (edited): Navigating 'Ser' and 'Estar': A Philosophical Exploration

Existence and Being

Hello!

Translating philosophical texts can indeed be challenging, especially when dealing with nuanced terms like "ser," "estar," and "parecer." These terms carry rich philosophical and linguistic implications.

For your examples, your rough drafts are generally well-structured and capture the essence of the original text. However, to enhance clarity and philosophical depth, consider the following refinements:

ROUGH DRAFT EXAMPLE 1:
"If we did not collectively reproduce our way of life daily, the possibility of BEING, EXISTING, AND APPEARING would cease to exist. These three attributive verbs necessitate a grammatical subject, and when contemplating 'we,' the question arises about the nature of this 'subject' (whether person, thing, or entity). In the realm where language appears as a mere conceptual abstraction, described as a 'system' or 'structure,' the query persists: Has this 'subject' always existed? The resounding answer is no."

ROUGH DRAFT EXAMPLE 2:
"While religious violence has been a constant throughout Islamic history, much like other religions, our focus lies on the distinct impacts of capitalist social relations (guided by the unconscious norm of the free subject) in societies whose discourse, akin to feudal societies, remains organic. This discourse notably excludes—albeit only verbally, as practical exclusion is impossible—the idea that subjectivity belongs to the individual. In this sense, such discourse denies the freedom TO BE, TO EXIST, AND TO APPEAR AS FREE."

ROUGH DRAFT EXAMPLE 3:
"Contemplate it, gentlemen, and you will conclude that the state of being doesn't inherently imply substance; it solely signifies the connection between attribute and subject, expressing merely a relation." (Page 124, translation and emphasis are ours.) Physical matter is part of social materiality but isn't pertinent to it. What holds relevance is the relationship between BEING, EXISTING, APPEARING, and the subject."

These adjustments aim to maintain the philosophical depth while refining the clarity and flow of the translations.
Peer comment(s):

neutral O G V : Estar no se puede asimilar tan clara o fácilmente a existir. "Existere' es un verbo del latín tardío o medieval que se aplica típicamente a Dios, al Ser. Es ontológico no circunstancial.
16 hrs
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Reference comments

2 hrs
Reference:

Atributo/subject complement

Copulas, linking verbs or copulative verbs, are a special type of verb that joins a subject complement to the subject of the sentence. The most common copular verbs are: be, seem, appear, feel, sound, get, become, taste, look.

https://www.englishreservoir.com/verbs-in-english/copular-ve...

Las oraciones copulativas o también llamadas atributivas son aquellas oraciones simples que están formadas por un verbo copulativo (ser, estar, parecer) y por el atributo. Tanto el verbo copulativo como el atributo se encuentran dentro del predicado nominal. Además del atributo puede existir cualquier complemento oracional.

https://sintaxis.org/oracion-simple/copulativa/

El atributo es el complemento verbal que indica un estado o cualidad del sujeto al que se refiere. El atributo aparece junto a verbos copulativos (ser, estar, parecer), perífrasis copulativas o junto a verbos pseudocopulativos que funcionan como copulativos en la oración.

El atributo califica, clasifica, identifica o determina un estado, propiedad o equivalencia del sujeto de la oración. Su principal característica es que concuerda en género y número con el sujeto de la oración.

https://sintaxis.org/funciones/atributo/
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