| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Translation agency does not issue official POs Thread poster: Anna A. K.
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Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 12:25
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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Sadek_A wrote:
The point was about current/future banking requirements, not about non payment!
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Its main purpose is to give fair leverage to the translator that provides services on credit.
Aah, now I understand what you mean.
Yes, in the types of business where it is useful or necessary for the supplier to purchase raw materials or equipment in order to fill the order, a purchase order that is in a format that satisfies the bank can be used to get credit from the bank. But we're translators: we don't need to buy raw materials or equipment every time we want to complete an order. If you are a translator and you need to get credit from a bank in order to do the job, then you are in dire straits.
Who said anything about PDF files? Why does it have to be PDF? You keep insisting on it being a PDF, why?
I apologise for making assumptions about your business. In my case, my entire business runs via e-mail, and clients can't e-mail paper. Fewer than 1% of my clients who send formal POs send the PO in DOC or DOCX format. Roughly 5% of them send it as an attached HTML file. The rest send it as PDF. I've had a fax number for about 15 years but it was never used by any client.
You keep repeating this expression, but at the same time you are rejecting - nay, fiercely discrediting - a substantial part of that very due diligence, aka PO.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/duediligence.asp
"Due diligence is an investigation ... or review performed to confirm facts or details of a matter under consideration."
What I (and I believe most of my colleagues here) mean, is that you must take steps to find out whether the client is reliable, trustworthy, and able to pay.
Part of due diligence is deciding not to work for a client whose actions raise red flags. I would not trust a client who insists on sending me a paper document with a stamp and/or signature, nor a translator who insists on receiving such documentation. If I were a project manager managing a translation project, I would steer clear of such people. Why? Because it's weird, and weird is dangerous where money is concerned.
[Edited at 2022-10-25 08:11 GMT]
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Samuel Murray wrote:
It is rare for translators to take their clients to court over non-payment.
Yes, it is rare, but I can assure you that the emails exchanged are evidence enough to take a client to court for non-payment. That’s what I did some 20 years ago and I won the case…
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 14:25
English to Arabic
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Samuel Murray wrote:
Yes, in the types of business where it is useful or necessary for the supplier to purchase raw materials or equipment in order to fill the order, a purchase order that is in a format that satisfies the bank can be used to get credit from the bank.
Where does it say so? Are there global formal lists that say business A receives a PO, and business B doesn't?
Also, who said anything about loans or credits?
You keep including new irrelevant factors to a discussion strictly about translators, why? Just to prove that translators MUST not require POs?
Samuel Murray wrote:
But we're translators: we don't need to buy raw materials or equipment every time we want to complete an order.
Where have you been? Haven't you been reading the topics here where translators are complaining that companies require them to buy certain software(s) and/or hardware(s), not to mention the subscriptions to professional societies and platforms?
Samuel Murray wrote:
DOC or DOCX...HTML...fax
So, other types do exist? How about JPEG/JPG? Can you successfully alter your client's POs in that type and use them as your own without being detected like you suggested before?
How about completing the immediate next sentence from the same link?
"In the financial world, due diligence requires an examination of financial records before entering into a proposed transaction with another party."
How about examining the PO then? It's financial (concerns money), relates to a transaction, and records the details thereof!
Samuel Murray wrote:
What I (and I believe most of my colleagues here) mean, is that you must take steps to find out whether the client is reliable, trustworthy, and able to pay.
A complete PO does exactly that!
Samuel Murray wrote:
If I were a project manager managing a translation project, I would steer clear of such people.
Are you a project manager?
How to make it look like a real stamp?
Maybe, Samuel et al. can sift through all scam/non-payment complaints here on the forum and try to fix them first before suggesting more leniency on the translators' side. The way things are now, we should be very much stricter!
Start with this one: https://www.proz.com/forum/money_matters/359539-whose_side_are_you_on_proz.html
[Edited at 2022-10-25 11:36 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 12:25
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| If you're happy | Oct 25, 2022 |
Sadek_A wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
What I (and I believe most of my colleagues here) mean, is that you must take steps to find out whether the client is reliable, trustworthy, and able to pay. A complete PO does exactly that!
If you're happy to believe that, then I wish you good fortune.
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Sadek_A
Local time: 14:25
English to Arabic
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All translators, and other language service providers, a full PO is one additional, far important piece of evidence on the given transaction.
However, feel free to abide by Samuel et al.'s rally for a "NO PO". Who needs to have regulations and procedures in an industry/vocation infested with scammers? 😮
| | | | Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 06:25
Japanese to English
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| official POs | Oct 26, 2022 |
If an agency is not willing to issue at least a purchase order NUMBER before the translation is started, they should be dropped.
| | | | Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 06:25
Japanese to English
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| official POs | Oct 27, 2022 |
I took two clients to court and they paid up.
| | | | | Many of my best clients do not issue POs | Oct 27, 2022 |
Of course it all depends what you mean by a PO.
A PO - short for Purchase Order - may be more or less formal and standardised. It is just another name for an agreement between the client and translator.
At some point they need to know each other´s addresses, VAT numbers, billing and bank details, etc.
If a request comes from a client I have already worked for, I have all the details I need for invoicing in my system. The client has paid me, so they know my bank details... See more Of course it all depends what you mean by a PO.
A PO - short for Purchase Order - may be more or less formal and standardised. It is just another name for an agreement between the client and translator.
At some point they need to know each other´s addresses, VAT numbers, billing and bank details, etc.
If a request comes from a client I have already worked for, I have all the details I need for invoicing in my system. The client has paid me, so they know my bank details and terms.
Many agencies like to set up a PDF or other standard document, which serves as a kind of checklist for project managers and translators - all the details are there every time. E.g. there may be a reminder to the translator about sending the invoice to the accounts department, not the PM. And so on.
However, as long as the agreement is clear, just a brief e-mail is legally binding on both parties.
One client would send me a file attachment with a mail something like this:
_________________________________
Hi Christine
573 words Friday morning?
Regards H
_________________________________
To which I might reply in the same style:
Hi H----
2 pm Friday afternoon?
Best wishes
Christine
_________________________________
He would perhaps reply:
_________________________________
OK, but ASAP.
Regards H
_________________________________
I then knew I could start work, and I did my best to deliver as early as possible. We did not need any more!
That was an extreme case, but the client was a State Authorized Translator, and I knew where to find him if I needed to. I also knew that he paid reliably, usually early. We had already registered all the information we needed.
In fact we might phone or mail in some detail to discuss points about the translation, queries from the end client, and other matters, and regularly wished each other a nice weekend or happy Christmas.
But it was a bit of a sport with him to keep e-mails brief and strictly relevant.
A PO may be useful, I agree, but a scammer can easily set up an impressive-looking PO. You still have to do your due diligence.
[Edited at 2022-10-27 11:56 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 12:25
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Confirm the confirm | Oct 27, 2022 |
Christine Andersen wrote:
He would perhaps reply:
OK, but ASAP.
Regards H
I then knew I could start work, and I did my best to deliver as early as possible. We did not need any more!
I would recommend at least sending confirmation that you have received his confirmation. When I was a younger translator, it had happened too often that I had assumed that the client knew that I had received his confirmation, when in fact he didn't, and thus didn't realize that I was going ahead with the job.
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Michael Newton wrote:
If an agency is not willing to issue at least a purchase order NUMBER before the translation is started, they should be dropped.
Why?
| | | | Tony Keily
Local time: 12:25
Italian to English
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Samuel Murray wrote:
I would recommend at least sending confirmation that you have received his confirmation. When I was a younger translator, it had happened too often that I had assumed that the client knew that I had received his confirmation, when in fact he didn't, and thus didn't realize that I was going ahead with the job.
I always see the chain as: availability request - non-binding availability confirmation - assignment of job - acceptance. The last two bits are generally expressed "You can go ahead with that then!" and "Will do!"
At that point we have a legally binding contract. Some people issue POs, almost everybody issues order numbers, but it doesn't really matter. (One of my Italian agencies often sends through the PO after the job has been delivered because they're just using it as an admin record, for billing and so on.)
| | | | | I would probably send an OK or something brief ... | Oct 27, 2022 |
Samuel Murray wrote: Christine Andersen wrote:
He would perhaps reply:
OK, but ASAP.
Regards H
I then knew I could start work, and I did my best to deliver as early as possible. We did not need any more! I would recommend at least sending confirmation that you have received his confirmation. When I was a younger translator, it had happened too often that I had assumed that the client knew that I had received his confirmation, when in fact he didn't, and thus didn't realize that I was going ahead with the job.
Quite true.
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