| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Most annoying types of agencies Thread poster: Baran Keki
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Michael Newton 
United States
Local time: 08:49
Japanese to English
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| Most annoying agencies | Aug 10, 2022 |
Just about all of them. Switch to direct clients.
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 15:49
Member
English to Turkish
TOPIC STARTER | Isn't that a bit extreme? | Aug 10, 2022 |
Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
Baran, if you don't like working for this agency, just drop them. Delivering an unedited MT output is not only unprofessional, but it can also qualify as unjust enrichment* (to avoid using another term, namely fraud**).
* A legal principle that if a person receives money or other property unfairly and at the expense of another -- that is, by chance, mistake, or without any personal effort -- the recipient should return the property to the rightful owner. In lawsuits based on unjust enrichment, courts can order that the property be returned (referred to as making restitution).
** A promise that goes unfulfilled may give rise to a claim for fraud only under particular circumstances. For example, in California law, a false promise is only fraudulent if the promisor intended both not to perform on the promise and also that that the promisee would rely on the promise; and, the promisee must have reasonably relied on the promise and been harmed as a result of that reasonable reliance.
Of course, I'm not daft enough to deliver unedited MT output (I may have exaggerated this a bit for effect). Clinical trials are one of the easiest fields of translation (especially easier in Turkish as the Turkish language is very poor where the medical terminology is concerned, all you have to do is write the Turkish pronunciations of English medical terms), it's no wonder MT provides good results with clinical trials.
Look, I'm not a fanboy of MT, and wouldn't use it under normal circumstances (it's usually more trouble than it's worth in other fields of translation). But I feel absolutely no remorse using it with that agency where their reviewers (who are freelance Turkish translators such as myself or Metin here) change a translation that reads "You will receive an email from the site" to "You will be sent an email by the site", just for the sake of adding more track-changes into the translation. As I said a number of times on this thread already, it won't make any difference however you formulate the sentence, they'll find a way to change it. And what's more, DeepL provides even better alternatives for such easy sentences.
I think making moral and criminal references a bit extreme in this case. You'll find that almost half the translators world over use MT one way or another, are they all fraudsters?
As for dropping that agency, why should I do that? It's easy job and pays well, if or when I get the chance. I'm working in one of the most saturated language pairs, and not exactly receiving jobs left, right and center. Now that I've found an easier way to complete jobs from that agency in less time than I used to do, I'll milk it to the fullest. The agency is good in general, it's just that their practice of sending everyone job notifications and giving you false hope sucks.
| | | | | It's mutual misunderstanding, then | Aug 10, 2022 |
Baran Keki wrote: Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
Baran, if you don't like working for this agency, just drop them. Delivering an unedited MT output is not only unprofessional, but it can also qualify as unjust enrichment* (to avoid using another term, namely fraud**). Of course, I'm not daft enough to deliver unedited MT output (I may have exaggerated this a bit for effect)... I think making moral and criminal references a bit extreme in this case. You'll find that almost half the translators world over use MT one way or another, are they all fraudsters?
I'm sorry I've taken your exaggeration at face value. No offence meant. I do use ModernMT myself whenever I can, and it does a pretty good job in my language pair and my areas of expertise. I just make every effort to produce a polished Russian deliverable to the best of my knowledge.
As for dropping that agency, why should I do that? It's easy job and pays well, if or when I get the chance. I'm working in one of the most saturated language pairs, and not exactly receiving jobs left, right and center. Now that I've found an easier way to complete jobs from that agency in less time than I used to do, I'll milk it to the fullest. The agency is good in general, it's just that their practice of sending everyone job notifications and giving you false hope sucks.
Like I said, IF you don't like working for this agency, just drop them. If they're good in general, you may let them know you're unhappy with certain aspects of your relationship with them. I do it from time to time. Sometimes it helps.
| | | | | Separated by a common language | Aug 10, 2022 |
A type of agency that annoys me - increasingly often these days - is the type that asks me to translate into US English. They tend to do this for specific end clients rather than across the board, but the requests still irritate me.
Never have I ever pretended to anyone that I am American or habitually speak/write US English. All my clients know - or should know - that I'm based in the UK. I've never even been to the USA! So why does anyone think I speak US English?!
Th... See more A type of agency that annoys me - increasingly often these days - is the type that asks me to translate into US English. They tend to do this for specific end clients rather than across the board, but the requests still irritate me.
Never have I ever pretended to anyone that I am American or habitually speak/write US English. All my clients know - or should know - that I'm based in the UK. I've never even been to the USA! So why does anyone think I speak US English?!
There seems to be a commonplace misconception among PMs that it's just a question of a few spelling differences. I haven't read or heard enough US English to know the full extent of the differences, but I've seen enough to know that there are probably thousands of differences in vocabulary, phrasing, usage, grammar, etc. I also get the impression that the more specialised the field, the more differences there are in the language. I come across new differences regularly, and seriously doubt I could ever hope to learn them all.
How do I respond to these requests? Depending on what mood I'm in and who's asking, I will either give a flat "no" or a caveat: I'm not American, I know the spelling conventions and some differences in vocabulary/grammar/style, but that's it. To be sure of getting 100% pure American English, you need to get an American to go through the translation and edit as necessary. To the best of my memory, no PM has ever had second thoughts and reassigned the job to someone else when I've said that. I've no idea whether any of them heed my advice and pay an American to check and edit the translation; the cynic in me suspects not. Why the reluctance to hire American translators directly?
And this begs the following question for the Americans among us: are any of you ever asked to translate into UK English? If so, how do you respond? If any of you work in my pairs, maybe we could trade clients in these situations so that we all end up working into the variety of English we know! ▲ Collapse
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Baran Keki wrote: Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
Baran, if you don't like working for this agency, just drop them. Delivering an unedited MT output is not only unprofessional, but it can also qualify as unjust enrichment* (to avoid using another term, namely fraud**).
* A legal principle that if a person receives money or other property unfairly and at the expense of another -- that is, by chance, mistake, or without any personal effort -- the recipient should return the property to the rightful owner. In lawsuits based on unjust enrichment, courts can order that the property be returned (referred to as making restitution).
** A promise that goes unfulfilled may give rise to a claim for fraud only under particular circumstances. For example, in California law, a false promise is only fraudulent if the promisor intended both not to perform on the promise and also that that the promisee would rely on the promise; and, the promisee must have reasonably relied on the promise and been harmed as a result of that reasonable reliance. Of course, I'm not daft enough to deliver unedited MT output (I may have exaggerated this a bit for effect). Clinical trials are one of the easiest fields of translation (especially easier in Turkish as the Turkish language is very poor where the medical terminology is concerned, all you have to do is write the Turkish pronunciations of English medical terms), it's no wonder MT provides good results with clinical trials. Look, I'm not a fanboy of MT, and wouldn't use it under normal circumstances (it's usually more trouble than it's worth in other fields of translation). But I feel absolutely no remorse using it with that agency where their reviewers (who are freelance Turkish translators such as myself or Metin here) change a translation that reads "You will receive an email from the site" to "You will be sent an email by the site", just for the sake of adding more track-changes into the translation. As I said a number of times on this thread already, it won't make any difference however you formulate the sentence, they'll find a way to change it. And what's more, DeepL provides even better alternatives for such easy sentences. I think making moral and criminal references a bit extreme in this case. You'll find that almost half the translators world over use MT one way or another, are they all fraudsters? As for dropping that agency, why should I do that? It's easy job and pays well, if or when I get the chance. I'm working in one of the most saturated language pairs, and not exactly receiving jobs left, right and center. Now that I've found an easier way to complete jobs from that agency in less time than I used to do, I'll milk it to the fullest. The agency is good in general, it's just that their practice of sending everyone job notifications and giving you false hope sucks.
[Edited at 2022-08-10 12:56 GMT]
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 08:49
Spanish to English
+ ...
| A brief guide to agencies' correspondence | Aug 10, 2022 |
The kinds of offers and treatment discussed in this thread sadly appear to be the norm in agencies' dealings with freelancers. Below is a an explanation of a few of the common terms from PMs' correspondence that might prove helpful for the unwary:
We have an exciting new opportunity.
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We are mass-mailing an offer for a small, poorly paid job to hundreds of translators, and will likely choose the cheapest of the lot.
*
We are looking for a translator f... See more The kinds of offers and treatment discussed in this thread sadly appear to be the norm in agencies' dealings with freelancers. Below is a an explanation of a few of the common terms from PMs' correspondence that might prove helpful for the unwary:
We have an exciting new opportunity.
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We are mass-mailing an offer for a small, poorly paid job to hundreds of translators, and will likely choose the cheapest of the lot.
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We are looking for a translator for long-term collaboration.
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We need someone to do this one project and, if you are lucky enough to be selected, this will likely be a one-off gig, because we surely will find someone cheaper for the next one.
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We are looking to expand our database of freelance translators.
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We already have a select group of people in your language combination to whom we typically offer jobs, but just in case one of them dies or falls out of favor with us, we want to make sure that we have a list of other people to go to. Don't hold your breath waiting.
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We've selected another linguist for this job, but we will most definitely keep you in mind for future projects.
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You will most definitely be included in our future mass-mailings and cattle calls for projects in your language pair.
[Edited at 2022-08-10 17:20 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Separated by a common language... | Aug 10, 2022 |
Peter Shortall wrote:
A type of agency that annoys me - increasingly often these days - is the type that asks me to translate into US English.
The same happens with Portuguese (Portugal vs Brazil). I can’t count the times I have been asked to translate into Brazilian Portuguese and when I say that I do not translate into Brazilian Portuguese because I’m from Portugal not from Brazil, I never cease to be amazed by the disbelief on the part of some translation agencies (curiously enough, no direct client has ever put this question to me…).
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 15:49
Member
English to Turkish
TOPIC STARTER | The Worst Kind | Aug 11, 2022 |
Perhaps the worst kind of agencies (which should be avoided like the plague) are the ones that hire cheap, incompetent translators for translations tasks, but a seasoned, expert translator for the 'revision' task, from whom they pretty much expect to turn the rubbish produced by the former into halfway passable output.
These are best exemplified by the so-called 'London agencies', run by Eastern European or Middle Eastern people, and a certain Danish agency, which is consistently getting a... See more Perhaps the worst kind of agencies (which should be avoided like the plague) are the ones that hire cheap, incompetent translators for translations tasks, but a seasoned, expert translator for the 'revision' task, from whom they pretty much expect to turn the rubbish produced by the former into halfway passable output.
These are best exemplified by the so-called 'London agencies', run by Eastern European or Middle Eastern people, and a certain Danish agency, which is consistently getting a lot of bad ratings these days due to late payments, lack of communication etc.
The amazing thing about these agencies is that the jobs they post (which pay usually no more than 3 or 4 cents per word) never remain available for more than 2 minutes. You should click on the accept button the second you've heard the email notification go off, otherwise you're too late and will miss out on a 1500 word job that pays a cool 55 EUR (to be paid 80 to 100 days after the calendar month by Paypal as a result of multiple reminders).
The PMs of these agencies won't give you the time of day when you try to haggle with them or ask to see the source file or ask them to extend the deadline (the deadline is always the first thing next morning or sometime on the weekend if the job is posted on Friday afternoon). You're basically nothing to them, because they have shit loads of other translators in their database who registered themselves simply by clicking on the 'join us' button on their website.
But you become very important the next day for the inevitable 'revision' task. They keep sending you emails to ask your availability and when they get so desperate they harass you by Whatsapp or even call you from Moldovia (London, right?) and offer you about the same rate they did for the translation.
It's very interesting that they go to such lengths to maintain the 'ISO standards' (the so-called four eye principle) and care for quality (after the fact) when they could simply hire a good translator to do the job by forking out 2 or 3 cents more.
I've never done a PMTE job before, and my experience with MT is limited to the last two jobs I've done for that annoying agency that I mentioned earlier (for which I seem to have got some stick by some members here), but based on the evidence I have, I don't think MT would produce anything worse than the work of a clueless, incompetent (human) translator employed by those agencies.
I worked with those agencies as a reviser (because of my per word rate, and here is a fun fact: when they see your rate for translation is higher than what they usually pay for your language pair, they assume that you must be a 'good translator') when I first started freelancing (I don't anymore, so thanks in advance in case you suggest I stay away from such agencies), you practically had to retranslate the whole thing from scratch. I mean after seeing MT, I'd take MT over bad human translation (i.e. inability to grasp the source text that requires specific subject matter knowledge, extremely poor command of target/native language as a result of doing a word for word translation and 'crafting' sentences as if posting a Youtube or Facebook comment, no research skills or willingness to do a rudimentary Google search to understand certain concepts, terminology etc. etc.) any day.
Except for that Danish agency, which will likely go under (and good riddance), the agencies I describe here have impressive BB records, receiving glowing reviews every week (I know because one of them used to keep pestering me to leave a WWA rating, rate them on Trustpilot, like them on FB etc etc.), and are generally doing good business by the look of things.
You see threads posted here every 3 or 4 months where people bitch and moan about low rates and how the industry turned to shit, they usually end up blaming MT. For as long as there are 'London agencies' and legions of Netflix watchers trusting their English and wanting to try their hand at translation to earn a few bucks, they will post those threads and harp on the same string.
Staying away from those London agencies is not the solution, their very existence and 'success' is the problem.
[Edited at 2022-08-11 09:42 GMT]
[Edited at 2022-08-11 09:42 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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| Clinical, you say? | Aug 11, 2022 |
Replacing words in a decent-looking translation? Are you quite CERTAIN you know your subject? Or are you implying their reviewers are the ones that don't?
Because while I don't know Turkish, I've worked on clinical trials in several other languages extensively. And the one thing that happens in all of them is that machine translation can't follow the terminology, because there are different terminology conventions for different sub-fields in different languages within that field dep... See more Replacing words in a decent-looking translation? Are you quite CERTAIN you know your subject? Or are you implying their reviewers are the ones that don't?
Because while I don't know Turkish, I've worked on clinical trials in several other languages extensively. And the one thing that happens in all of them is that machine translation can't follow the terminology, because there are different terminology conventions for different sub-fields in different languages within that field depending on context.
You'll end up with stuff like IMPD Section Medicinal Product (should be: Drug Product), Summary of Amendments in Material Change (should be: Summary of Changes in Substantial Amendment), provision of claims to apply significant changes (just lol), Declarations of Identity (that are actually about identical-ness), Protocols that are actually Minutes or Certificates or Maintenance Records, Patient Cards that are CRFs or medical records, graphs that are schedules, etc. etc. etc.
Baran Keki wrote: Korana Lasić wrote:
When you've had the opportunity to work with this agency, you've sent in a DeepL translation for the price of a decent human translation, and now you're wondering why they no longer pick you, ever? Hm! Puzzling indeed! I had the chance to work with them more than a dozen times so far and, save for the last two occasions, I always delivered 'decent human translation'. But it makes no difference in the end, their reviewers will forever replace words with their synonyms or their preferred terminology without making any meaningful improvements in the quality. I tried DeepL in the last two jobs and saw that it was really good with that sort of content. Using DeepL has no bearing whatsoever on my getting picked for projects. I was picked for those projects simply because their pet translator was too busy with other projects, or on a holiday or sick on those days. So it's just all down to luck. And, to be perfectly honest, I have no qualms whatsoever about using DeepL with that agency, because I just know the kind of 'corrections' their reviewers will make. I'll save the 'decent human translation' for more deserving clients. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | The worst kind | Aug 12, 2022 |
For me, the worst agencies are those wrapped in red tape like an American translation agency which some years ago contacted me asking if I was willing to do a short medical test. I was available and I do like translating some medicine texts (mainly obstetrics and medical devices) and they had an excellent BB. After this was done and approved, they asked for a photo (?), a signed NDA and a long list of other requirements and to top it all emailed me a so-called welcome pack having 34 pages for me... See more For me, the worst agencies are those wrapped in red tape like an American translation agency which some years ago contacted me asking if I was willing to do a short medical test. I was available and I do like translating some medicine texts (mainly obstetrics and medical devices) and they had an excellent BB. After this was done and approved, they asked for a photo (?), a signed NDA and a long list of other requirements and to top it all emailed me a so-called welcome pack having 34 pages for me to read, sign and return. My final answer was: thank you but no thanks!
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Teresa Borges wrote:
For me, the worst agencies are those wrapped in red tape like an American translation agency which some years ago contacted me […]. After this was done and approved, they asked for a photo (?), a signed NDA and a long list of other requirements and to top it all emailed me a so-called welcome pack having 34 pages for me to read, sign and return. My final answer was: thank you but no thanks!
I got 68 pages of such yada yada to sign from a Polish agency a couple of years ago. Naturally, I told them to go comb monkeys, as people say here in Portugal. I don't get how they can have 4.7* on the Blue Board. I guess many don't read agency contracts.
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 15:49
Member
English to Turkish
TOPIC STARTER | I may have had dealings with them | Aug 12, 2022 |
Teresa Borges wrote:
For me, the worst agencies are those wrapped in red tape like an American translation agency which some years ago contacted me asking if I was willing to do a short medical test. I was available and I do like translating some medicine texts (mainly obstetrics and medical devices) and they had an excellent BB. After this was done and approved, they asked for a photo (?), a signed NDA and a long list of other requirements and to top it all emailed me a so-called welcome pack having 34 pages for me to read, sign and return. My final answer was: thank you but no thanks!
This sounds like an agency that asked me to install their antivirus and encryption software and run them at all times (in case my computer gets infected and their files compromised in the process). On the promise of 10 cents per word I installed their blasted gadgets on my old desktop, which slowed down my already old and dying computer... You couldn't print out the badly formatted PDFs (usually captured by a mobile phone camera) because of that encryption program, so it was tremendously difficult to work on them. I did one or two projects for them (got paid in 70 or 80 days by Payoneer, which took a hefty cut from my earnings) and then deleted their bloody software.
I still receive job notifications from them (and up to one point I'd receive warnings that my computer was not safe because their antivirus software was disabled - they were voyeuristic that way), but they decided to offer 5 cents instead of 10. And needless to say, they have a 'perfect' BB record as part of their name indicates..
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Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 15:49
Member
English to Turkish
TOPIC STARTER | Speaking of Payoneer | Aug 12, 2022 |
I once worked with a US agency that would take 15 USD for payments by Payoneer and get you paid earlier compared to other alternatives (wire transfer, check, Paypal etc.). At the time I had no option but to use Payoneer, which was/is no better than Paypal as far as ripping you off in service fees.
I mean for a job that paid 50 USD, you'd get something like 30 or 31 USD (and further deductions if you want to withdraw the money into your domestic account).
I wonder if there are any o... See more I once worked with a US agency that would take 15 USD for payments by Payoneer and get you paid earlier compared to other alternatives (wire transfer, check, Paypal etc.). At the time I had no option but to use Payoneer, which was/is no better than Paypal as far as ripping you off in service fees.
I mean for a job that paid 50 USD, you'd get something like 30 or 31 USD (and further deductions if you want to withdraw the money into your domestic account).
I wonder if there are any other agencies that charge such a ridiculous fee for an online payment method. It's like a effing robbery (and there is no mention of this in their BB record).
But I had a case of incredible poetic justice with them, which I shouldn't share on a public forum. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Worst agencies... | Aug 12, 2022 |
are those who put their "vendors" in a ranking system and one the factors determining the ranking is their delivery speed.
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 15:49
Member
English to Turkish
TOPIC STARTER | Interesting point | Aug 12, 2022 |
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
are those who put their "vendors" in a ranking system and one the factors determining the ranking is their delivery speed.
Agencies asking for impossible deadlines are not worth working for, but I'd personally prefer to be ranked based on 'delivery speed', instead of 'per word rate', if that makes sense?
This reminds me, I sometimes stumble upon profiles where our dear colleagues proudly state "I have never missed a deadline in my career!"
I don't know if it's me, but this awfully sounds like a doctor saying "I have never killed a patient on the operating table! Put your trust in me!"
[Edited at 2022-08-12 12:29 GMT]
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