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Off topic: 唱歌吧......(Sing, Sing a Song...)
Autor da sequência: Wenjer Leuschel

J.H. Wang
China
Local time: 06:27
Membro (2007)
Inglês para Chinês
+ ...
谢谢前辈的鼓励和指正 Jun 23, 2014

wherestip wrote:

J.H.,

我一直觉得 你中文文笔很不错, 这诗歌的译文更是不例外。

大致看了一下, 我认为基本理解都是对的。 下面这段在分句上有些问题:

And realised
We were chasing
Shadows behind
Not worth saving
So burn it bright
Forever illuminating

分句应是:

And realized we were chasing shadows behind not worth saving; so burn it bright, forever illuminating.



http://oaadonline.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/shadow

something not real

7 (countable) a thing that is not real or possible to obtain

You can't spend all your life chasing shadows.



我想歌词中这样用大概是有双重意思,一个就是通常指的 实际上不存在、不可获得的,另一个就是我们在追逐已逝去的不值得留恋的时光 (memories not worth saving)。

In the context, I think the meaning leans more towards the latter though.

~*~*~*~*~*



http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/carry%20the%20day.html

Idiom: Carry the day
Idiom Definitions for 'Carry the day'

If something carries the day, it wins a battle (the sense is that the battle has been long and could have gone either way) or competition for supremacy.



承担责任、承担使命

In the past, it's been mostly the baby boomer generation that's been carrying the day. Now the next generation needs to do their part on their own.




文笔其实还谈不上好。好的文字往往是经过反复修改的,需要的是功夫。特别是指出断句问题。因为原句没有标点符号,我也没有太多的背景资料参考,犯了严重错误,呵呵。shadow 的翻译的确还可以再准确一些。

[Edited at 2014-06-23 14:58 GMT]

[Edited at 2014-06-23 17:55 GMT]


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J.H. Wang
China
Local time: 06:27
Membro (2007)
Inglês para Chinês
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weight 的意思再探讨 Jun 23, 2014

David Lin wrote:

录像链结描述年青人为某些关注的问题在路上游行抗议,想引起公众注意,里面有防暴警察用防暴犬来对付示威者。所以好像不是有关年轻人个人归属感的问题。

"carry days" 应该来自 “carry the day" = victorious,successful = 赢得他人赞同,达致成功、胜利。

”weight" 应该是 “责任”

being "so much more" = 有多大(的责任)

这样理解会容易一点。

我们从未独自赢得胜利
但是现在该知道
我们的责任有多大
我们将在路上发现自己


意喻参与游行抗议的人必须团结一致,在参与游行 (road) 过程中除了更了解自己之外,也会晓得责任重大。这段歌词重覆几次,其中有鼓励作用。

歌名 lantern 有基督教信仰意味,因为圣经中提到人在世上需作盐、作光。后者有作世上明灯,在黑暗中具照明作用,指出错误,寻找正途之意。


嗯,carry the day 似乎还是翻译为“取得胜利”等比较好些。

关于 weight,我查了一下《新牛津英汉双解大词典》,其中有两个义项可以参考:

[mass noun]the ability of someone or something to influence decisions or actions
(对决定或行动的)影响力

另一义项:

■the importance attached to something.
(某事的)重要性

我想可能是“影响力”、“力量”更准确些。


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J.H. Wang
China
Local time: 06:27
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Inglês para Chinês
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being so much more 比较难译 Jun 23, 2014

The weight of being so much more 与前面的 There is more I could be 应该是呼应的。我觉得 There is more I could be 是说我可以成为比现在更???的人,其实是对自己现状不满意,寻求改变。

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wherestip  Identity Verified
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"The weight of being so much more" Jun 23, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

The weight of being so much more 与前面的 There is more I could be 应该是呼应的。我觉得 There is more I could be 是说我可以成为比现在更???的人,其实是对自己现状不满意,寻求改变。


J.H.,

"To be so much more" refers to having to mature and take on so much more responsibility compared to the previous carefree days of preadulthood.

There's a certain weight that comes with taking on these responsibilities, hence the weight of being so much more.

IMO, the Chinese rendering doesn't necessarily have to follow the English grammar exactly.
But I think I would put it as 感到责任更加重大的压力, or 更加感到任重道远.
On this, I agree with David's interpretation.



http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/weight

weight
noun \ˈwāt\

5 a :  burden, pressure (the weight of their responsibilities)

b :  the quality or state of being ponderous




[Edited at 2014-06-24 12:06 GMT]


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David Lin  Identity Verified
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作为一盏有用的明灯 Jun 23, 2014

J.H. Wang wrote:

The weight of being so much more 与前面的 There is more I could be 应该是呼应的。我觉得 There is more I could be 是说我可以成为比现在更???的人,其实是对自己现状不满意,寻求改变。


个人觉得也是用来引出下面几句,现在时机成熟要 ‘成为一个更有用的人’ -- 作为一盏明灯,洞悉世事,勇于表达自己的立场,显出自己的身份,因为我们已经准备妥当、年纪轻轻、无所畏惧。

it is finally clear
Our day has come
And we'll stand for who we are
We are ready, we are young
We have nothing to fear


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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中国传统思想情操上比较相近的 Jun 23, 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kfQ8p_EFHk

做人要做这样的人 (刘长瑜)

听罢奶奶说红灯
言语不多道理深
为什么爹爹表叔不怕担风险?
为的是救中国 救穷人 打败鬼子兵
我想到做事要做这样的事
做人要做这样的人
铁梅呀,年龄十七不算小
为什么不能帮助爹爹操点心?
好比说爹爹挑担有千斤重
铁梅你应该挑上八百斤



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENA6i8V7o_M (钢琴伴唱)

做人要做这样的人 (刘长瑜)

听罢奶奶说红灯
言语不多道理深
我看到 爹爹不怕担风险
表叔甘愿流血牺牲
他们到底为什么?
为的是救中国 救穷人 打败鬼子兵
我想到做事要做这样的事
做人要做这样的人
铁梅呀,年龄十七不算小
为什么不能帮助爹爹操点心?
好比说爹爹挑担有千斤重
铁梅你应该挑上这八百斤



Of course in Western cultures, the younger generation doesn't simply want to take over the causes of the older generation. They want to come into their own and stand up for what they believe in. I'm pretty sure the predominant mentality is the same in China today.


[Edited at 2014-06-24 14:44 GMT]


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J.H. Wang
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修正版 1 Jun 23, 2014

根据前面 Steve 前辈和 Lin 兄的宝贵意见,以及我个人的理解或曲解,现在给出新的修正版本,供大家参考:


明灯

近来我发现
每当我开始自言自语时
声音中就有一种渴望
我可以活出我自己
我在黑夜中离去
到一个从未见过的地方
它一直在召唤我
那儿是我应该去的地方

我们从未独自获得成功
但是现在该我们知道
团结起来的力量
我们将在路上认识我们自己

我们勇往直前
唱着夜半歌声
我们用点亮的明灯
照亮前进的道路
我们勇往直前
直到迎来黎明
我们用点亮的明灯
照亮前进的道路

当我们在我们找到的光明中
毫无犹疑、义无反顾地
出走的时候
最终显然
我们的日子已经来到了
我们将代表我们自己
我们准备好了,我们正年青
我们无所畏惧

我们从未独自获得成功
但是现在该我们知道
团结起来的力量
我们将在路上认识我们自己

我们勇往直前
唱着夜半歌声
我们用点亮的明灯
照亮前进的道路
我们勇往直前
直到迎来黎明
我们用点亮的明灯
照亮前进的道路

我们让灯光
靠近我们的脸
就会意识到
我们是在追逐
不值得留恋的
身后幻影
让灯燃烧得更明亮些吧
永远光辉照耀

我们勇往直前
唱着夜半歌声
我们用着点亮的明灯
照亮前进的道路
我们勇往直前
直到迎来黎明
我们用点亮的明灯
照亮前进的道路

我在黑夜中离去
到一个从未见过的地方
它一直在召唤我
那儿是我应该去的地方


我的译文主要求达意,并未考虑到韵律问题。有兴趣的朋友还可以兼顾原歌词的押韵情况,对我的版本进行修改,使之臻于完美。

[Edited at 2014-06-23 17:43 GMT]


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David Lin  Identity Verified
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’责任‘ 多于 ’团结力量‘ Jun 24, 2014

wherestip wrote:

J.H. Wang wrote:

The weight of being so much more 与前面的 There is more I could be 应该是呼应的。我觉得 There is more I could be 是说我可以成为比现在更???的人,其实是对自己现状不满意,寻求改变。


J.H.,

"To be so much more" refers to having to mature and take on so much more responsibility compared to the previous carefree days of preadulthood.

There's a certain weight that comes with taking on these responsibilities, hence the weight of being so much more.

IMO, the Chinese rendering doesn't necessarily have to follow the English grammar exactly.
But I think I would put it as 感到责任更加重大的压力, or 更加感到任重道远.
On this, I agree with David's interpretation.



http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/weight

weight
noun \ˈwāt\

5 a :  burden, pressure (the weight of their responsibilities)

b :  the quality or state of being ponderous




[Edited at 2014-06-24 12:06 GMT]


Hi Steve,

谢谢。和你一样,个人比较偏向于 ’负担‘ 或 ’责任‘ 的含义,多于 ’影响力‘ 或 ’力量‘, 因为在西方社会,一般呼籲群众参与社会运动,都强调个人对自己及社会/国家的责任,多于夸张 ’团结‘ 的力量。他们了解到,只要每一个人觉得有责任去承担社会的义务,其结果就是 ’团结一致‘,影响力自然而然就流露出来,毋需运用空泛的口号,效果反而会更显著。

个人责任心的建立 = 一个过程
团结 = 只是一个结果 - 众人共同承担相同的责任的效果

所以,承担 ’责任‘ 是构成团结一心及群体影响力的一个基本过程,亦是作者的原意。


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J.H. Wang
China
Local time: 06:27
Membro (2007)
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还可以做进一步的探讨 Jun 25, 2014

David Lin wrote:

wherestip wrote:

J.H. Wang wrote:

The weight of being so much more 与前面的 There is more I could be 应该是呼应的。我觉得 There is more I could be 是说我可以成为比现在更???的人,其实是对自己现状不满意,寻求改变。


J.H.,

"To be so much more" refers to having to mature and take on so much more responsibility compared to the previous carefree days of preadulthood.

There's a certain weight that comes with taking on these responsibilities, hence the weight of being so much more.

IMO, the Chinese rendering doesn't necessarily have to follow the English grammar exactly.
But I think I would put it as 感到责任更加重大的压力, or 更加感到任重道远.
On this, I agree with David's interpretation.



http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/weight

weight
noun \ˈwāt\

5 a :  burden, pressure (the weight of their responsibilities)

b :  the quality or state of being ponderous




[Edited at 2014-06-24 12:06 GMT]


Hi Steve,

谢谢。和你一样,个人比较偏向于 ’负担‘ 或 ’责任‘ 的含义,多于 ’影响力‘ 或 ’力量‘, 因为在西方社会,一般呼籲群众参与社会运动,都强调个人对自己及社会/国家的责任,多于夸张 ’团结‘ 的力量。他们了解到,只要每一个人觉得有责任去承担社会的义务,其结果就是 ’团结一致‘,影响力自然而然就流露出来,毋需运用空泛的口号,效果反而会更显著。

个人责任心的建立 = 一个过程
团结 = 只是一个结果 - 众人共同承担相同的责任的效果

所以,承担 ’责任‘ 是构成团结一心及群体影响力的一个基本过程,亦是作者的原意。


我的译文大概是曲解。我觉得要理解 weight 的意思,首先要弄清 being so much more 的意思,这两者都可以做进一步的探讨。



[Edited at 2014-06-25 07:29 GMT]


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QHE
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发挥一下 Jun 26, 2014

J.H.,

你翻译的歌词非常好。我参考了一下 David,Steve 和铁梅意见,在你的译文中加进了些个人的理解,不一定正确,互相启发吧。


“明灯”

近日里发现
每当我自语自言
有种渴望在回响
我心怀更高的期望
黑夜中我离去
追寻一个未知地
不断地它召唤我
那是我的归属地

我们从未独担重任
现在却该取决于己
生之责任如此沉重愈劣
征程中我们将认知自己

进 前进
唱着夜半歌声
照亮前行之路吧
我们燃亮的明灯
进 前进
直到迎来黎明
照亮前行之路吧
我们燃亮的明灯

我们踏上征途
坚定不移,毫无犹疑
行进在明灯的光亮里
黎明终于破晓
我们的日子已来到
我们会坚信自己
我们有准备,我们正年轻
我们无所畏惧

我们从未独担重任
现在却该取决于己
生之责任如此沉重愈劣
征程中我们将认知自己

进 前进
唱着夜半歌声
照亮前行之路吧
我们燃亮的明灯
进 前进
直到迎来黎明
照亮前行之路吧
我们燃亮的明灯

手举明灯
靠近脸庞
适才领悟
追逐过的时光
那枉然的幻影
是无价的废墟
让它炽烈地燃烧吧
永放启迪之光

进 前进
唱着夜半歌声
照亮前行之路吧
我们燃亮的明灯
进 前进
直到迎来黎明
照亮前行之路吧
我们燃亮的明灯

黑夜中我离去
追寻一个未知地
不断地它召唤我
那是我的归属地


[Edited at 2014-06-26 02:51 GMT]

[Edited at 2014-06-26 03:06 GMT]


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J.H. Wang
China
Local time: 06:27
Membro (2007)
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更有诗意了 Jun 26, 2014

QHE wrote:

J.H.,

你翻译的歌词非常好。我参考了一下 David,Steve 和铁梅意见,在你的译文中加进了些个人的理解,不一定正确,互相启发吧。


“明灯”

近日里发现
每当我自语自言
有种渴望在回响
我心怀更高的期望
黑夜中我离去
追寻一个未知地
不断地它召唤我
那是我的归属地

我们从未独担重任
现在却该取决于己
生之责任如此沉重愈劣
征程中我们将认知自己

进 前进
唱着夜半歌声
照亮前行之路吧
我们燃亮的明灯
进 前进
直到迎来黎明
照亮前行之路吧
我们燃亮的明灯

我们踏上征途
坚定不移,毫无犹疑
行进在明灯的光亮里
黎明终于破晓
我们的日子已来到
我们会坚信自己
我们有准备,我们正年轻
我们无所畏惧

我们从未独担重任
现在却该取决于己
生之责任如此沉重愈劣
征程中我们将认知自己

进 前进
唱着夜半歌声
照亮前行之路吧
我们燃亮的明灯
进 前进
直到迎来黎明
照亮前行之路吧
我们燃亮的明灯

手举明灯
靠近脸庞
适才领悟
追逐过的时光
那枉然的幻影
是无价的废墟
让它炽烈地燃烧吧
永放启迪之光

进 前进
唱着夜半歌声
照亮前行之路吧
我们燃亮的明灯
进 前进
直到迎来黎明
照亮前行之路吧
我们燃亮的明灯

黑夜中我离去
追寻一个未知地
不断地它召唤我
那是我的归属地


[Edited at 2014-06-26 02:51 GMT]

[Edited at 2014-06-26 03:06 GMT]


QHE,

我觉得你的翻译更有诗意,我的更直白。而且,你对一些双关、隐喻处理得很不错。待我认真研究你的翻译,并探讨其中的一些难点后,再发布一个新颁本。

[Edited at 2014-06-26 07:15 GMT]


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pkchan  Identity Verified
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FASCINATION Jul 2, 2014



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQknNaxLAaA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTpNe6P0Y9Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAtiZApc2sU


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pkchan  Identity Verified
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sabrina - la vie en rose Jul 3, 2014



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPiDd7j1w44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BFhn0yqVQ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IXdEXTeDko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFzViYkZAz4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ba_WoSZXvw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4REbp0s_G9w


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QHE
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Happy 4th of July ! Jul 4, 2014

This Land Is Your Land - Woody Guthrie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1my1jn6QHzE

You've Been a Friend To Me - Carter Family
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pifcov2RV88

Life Is Like A Mountain Railroad - Patsy Cline & Willie Nelson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOkYH6sV9lw

Jambalaya - The Carpenters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I4-UmoY7js

Blowing In The Wind - Bob Dylan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nayTUrTnyQM


Smileys


[Edited at 2014-07-04 01:30 GMT]


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David Lin  Identity Verified
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The original copy of the American Declaration of Independence kept in London Jul 5, 2014

QHE wrote:

This Land Is Your Land - Woody Guthrie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1my1jn6QHzE

You've Been a Friend To Me - Carter Family
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pifcov2RV88

Life Is Like A Mountain Railroad - Patsy Cline & Willie Nelson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOkYH6sV9lw

Jambalaya - The Carpenters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I4-UmoY7js

Blowing In The Wind - Bob Dylan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nayTUrTnyQM


Smileys


[Edited at 2014-07-04 01:30 GMT]


The British Parliament owns the original copy of the American Declaration of Independence dated from 1778. See more details in the link below.

http://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/evolutionofparliament/legislativescrutiny/parliament-and-empire/collections1/collections/declaration-of-independence/


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