| 话题中的页数: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31] > | Off topic: 我们这里有外汇市场专家吗？(M+M+M！) 论题张贴者: chance (X)
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chance (X)
French法语译成Chinese汉语
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主题发起人 | isahuang
Local time: 15:04
English英语译成Chinese汉语
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| original version | May 1, 2007 |
Chance, what did Sarko originally say ? Did he say sth like J’invite tous les Français à s’unir à moi and it got mistranslated into sth else? I didn't have time yet to check the french forum, but will do when I get a minute.
| | | | chance (X)
French法语译成Chinese汉语
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主题发起人 | isahuang
Local time: 15:04
English英语译成Chinese汉语
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Chance, thank you for the link, I watched the debate for about 1 hour. I couldn't watch the whole thing as I had a class at 4:30 yesterday. But for the part I watched, I was very impressed by both candidates. This debate was more interesting than the Presidential debate here in general. Here the candidates just want to avoid talking about the real issues. However, I have to say, I was not moved by Royal's economic policies, and I don't think she has any. I especially disagree with her when she said the French doesn't work sufficiently because of the high unemployment rate. That doesn't make sense and doesn't explain why the French doesn't work sufficiently. In terms of economic policies, Sarkozy has a better remedy although painful. And economic growth is the key to many issues a nation faces including unemployment, crime, social welfare network. I have to stop here for now, gotta go to work.
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Wenjer Leuschel (X) 
台湾
Local time: 03:04
English英语译成Chinese汉语
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一德国人的观点看两位候选人的表现，显然比较推崇 Sarkozy。
http://www.tagesschau.de/aktuell/meldungen/0,1185,OID6690910_REF1,00.html
也许民调的结果有些影响，Royal 在辩论里显得激动，而以往以暴烈的脾气知名的 Sarkozy 却在这次辩论中出奇地稳重。
Und Royal wagte dann noch in eigener Sache einen Blick über die Grenze: Viele Franzosen zögerten, sie als Frau zu wählen, doch: "Es gibt Angela Merkel! Ich glaube daher, dass es möglich ist: Man sieht, wie effektiv diese Frau ist, wie konkret und handlungsfähig." (... 许多法国人迟疑是否应该选一位女人，但：“还有一位 Angela Merkel 呢！因此，我相信有可能：看这个女人多么有效率，具体、有力。”)
对德国人而言，女性领导人不是问题，问题在于领导人的性格。显然，Sarkozy 掌权的准备比较充分，所以他不以攻击为要务，反倒采取防守的态度－民调领先，对候选人的心理还是有影响的。
| | | | isahuang
Local time: 15:04
English英语译成Chinese汉语
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同意德国人的观察，我昨天在看辩论的时候有相同的感觉。Royal显得有点沉不住气，而且有几次接答Sarkozy话题时，给我的感觉不像是总统辩论，更像是普通的聊天争执。这位德国人觉得她激动，但也有不少法国人认为她在昨天的辩论中很自信，very assertive. 但无论谁当选，法国人至少会有一个articulate and eloquent President.
| | | | chance (X)
French法语译成Chinese汉语
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主题发起人
Royal有意攻击，主要事先有人断言她根本不是Sarkozy对手，实际上大选初期社会党内部辩论时很多人就不信她会有今天，事实证明她能到这一步已经需要冲破许多阻力，这一年来我是发现她有很大进步；Sarkozy 昨晚doux comme un agneau, 好几次让我大笑，因为他的支持者让他一定要沉住气，不要露出他的强硬脾气, Royal 知道这一点，有点故意刺激他 ... See more Royal有意攻击，主要事先有人断言她根本不是Sarkozy对手，实际上大选初期社会党内部辩论时很多人就不信她会有今天，事实证明她能到这一步已经需要冲破许多阻力，这一年来我是发现她有很大进步；Sarkozy 昨晚doux comme un agneau, 好几次让我大笑，因为他的支持者让他一定要沉住气，不要露出他的强硬脾气, Royal 知道这一点，有点故意刺激他 国家电视台的工作人员都怕Sarkozy，这可不是什么优点，他是会用权力去禁止别人说话的人，如果当选，希望他能够有所改进。
我看他们都是聪明人，各有千秋，所以对未来五年报乐观态度。当然我指的聪明人是要在实践中检验并可能纠正自己想法的人。
总的来说，我是倾向北欧的社会经济，而不赞成完全自由的市场经济；在执政方法以及环保问题上，我更赞成Royal。不管谁上台都有个实践检验的过程，如果利大于弊，朝好的方向发展最好；如果弊大于利，看不到积极的方向，五年后再换人，这不就是民主制度的优势吗？虽然有时候超半数的人不一定就对
Tingting Huang wrote:
同意德国人的观察，我昨天在看辩论的时候有相同的感觉。Royal显得有点沉不住气，而且有几次接答Sarkozy话题时，给我的感觉不像是总统辩论，更像是普通的聊天争执。这位德国人觉得她激动，但也有不少法国人认为她在昨天的辩论中很自信，very assertive. 但无论谁当选，法国人至少会有一个articulate and eloquent President.
[Edited at 2007-05-03 16:55]
[Edited at 2007-05-04 10:57] ▲ Collapse
| | | | pkchan
美国
Local time: 15:04
正式会员 (自2006)
English英语译成Chinese汉语
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Sarkozy counters barbs from Royal
French Socialist Party candidate Ségolène Royal and her conservative rival, Nicolas Sarkozy, were joined by two journalists (center) at the start of their only debate last night. (thomas coex/associated press)
By Crispian Balmer, Reuters | May 3, 2007
PARIS -- Socialist presidential candidate Ségolène Royal turned on her conservative rival Nicolas Sarkozy during an often ill-tempered TV debate yesterday, attacking his record in of... See more Sarkozy counters barbs from Royal
French Socialist Party candidate Ségolène Royal and her conservative rival, Nicolas Sarkozy, were joined by two journalists (center) at the start of their only debate last night. (thomas coex/associated press)
By Crispian Balmer, Reuters | May 3, 2007
PARIS -- Socialist presidential candidate Ségolène Royal turned on her conservative rival Nicolas Sarkozy during an often ill-tempered TV debate yesterday, attacking his record in office and accusing him of political immorality.
But a restrained Sarkozy hit back, questioning whether she could handle the pressures of the presidency, and analysts said neither contender appeared to have landed the knockout blow just four days before their runoff election.
Royal set the tone from the outset of the 160-minute duel, repeatedly forcing Sarkozy to defend the outgoing conservative government in which he served as interior and finance minister.
"What have you done during the past five years? There is a problem of credibility here," Royal said, often interrupting Sarkozy during quickfire exchanges on a range of issues including the economy, security, nuclear energy, and pensions....
"I don't think either managed to convince the other camp. Both spoke to their own electorate . . . Ségolène Royal spoke to the weak, Nicolas Sarkozy to those who want things to move," said Anita Hausser, political commentator for LCI TV.....
Though the candidates were seated directly opposite one another, Sarkozy often seemed to hold back and rarely looked Royal in the eyes, talking instead to the pair of presiding journalists.
Sarkozy has been branded by opponents as overly aggressive, but yesterday it was Royal who got the most heated. However, she dismissed his accusation that she had lost her calm.
"There is anger that is perfectly healthy . . . I won't allow the immorality of political speeches to gain the upper hand," she said, sitting ramrod straight....
One highlight of the clash was a discussion of the 35-hour work week that the last Socialist government introduced. Sarkozy plans to circumvent it if elected.
"The 35-hour week was a complete catastrophe," said Sarkozy, prompting Royal to ask why his government had not changed it.
And he challenged the Socialist candidate when she announced a plan to tax earnings from share dealings in order to pay for higher pensions, without having tallied the cost of the measure.
"That's a stunning piece of detail. Can't you give us a figure?" Sarkozy said, repeatedly goading her over the issue.
Sarkozy has led recent opinion polls by four to eight percentage points, and the debate represented Royal's best chance to close the gap. ▲ Collapse
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chance (X)
French法语译成Chinese汉语
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主题发起人
可惜昨晚两人都拘谨，没有平时辩论那么潇洒
Tingting Huang wrote:
但无论谁当选，法国人至少会有一个articulate and eloquent President.
| | | | pkchan
美国
Local time: 15:04
正式会员 (自2006)
English英语译成Chinese汉语
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| Wenjer Leuschel (X)
台湾
Local time: 03:04
English英语译成Chinese汉语
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呵呵，这个苦劳网还曾经引用了我在台湾报上发表的两篇文章呢。在他们的论坛上，我倒不贴什么。
移民、难民的问题一直是这个地球的大问题。不只是欧洲国家有那样的问题，在美国、甚至在中国也有那样的问题，也许在美国还让人感受得到移民和难民的压力，但在中国却好像没有感觉，那是因为汉唐宋时期的民族迁徙历史距离今日已远矣。河南人不就被叫成河南担子的吗？那是一种在地难民或移民，有些地方的人还挺怕外地人聚居呢。
法国的移民和难民问题其实也反映出他们的殖民历史。这在中国顶多表现在藏苗蒙回进入沿海大城市的现象里，平常不起眼、难察觉。在欧洲，几乎每个国家都有移民和难民的问题，其中最严重的就是德法两国。如果保守的欧洲人说“外国人滚回去！”，而外国人真的都滚蛋，那么德法两国的人口会大大地减少，而且这下会很麻烦，比中国的大城市缺乏内陆落后地区来的民工还要麻烦：没有人缴税纳粮，看欧洲人要如何维持他们的社会福利制度！？
全世界都是先到的人觉得自己比较有权利，各种不同等级的法国人当然也是那样认为。我所到之处，大概只有台湾这个地方是那些后来的人觉得自己比较有权利，先来的反而感到被统治的悲哀。移民美洲或欧洲，固然有种族或族群的差别待遇，但后来者总认命些，不跟在地人过分争取权利。如果移民是带着枪杆子征服在地人的，那么表现出来的态度就很不同。台湾的现象就是这样。其实，整个美洲以往的现象也是如此。
现今的北美、欧洲情况当然不同了，落后国家的人们还是想尽办法要移民归属当地的异族统治，却无法想象那些异族哪天也可能带着枪杆子征服他们的移民母国。问问那些落户在沿海城市的新疆人的感受，也许他们也有许多有趣的故事。
何止法国人骨子里很政治？人类的和平还真的很难哩。
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
台湾
Local time: 03:04
English英语译成Chinese汉语
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pkchan wrote: www.coolloud.org.tw/news/database/interface/detailstander.asp?ID=122133 第一次注意到大選的嚴重性，是在波爾多。那天晚上在酒吧認識了一個蓄髮長鬚的年輕人，聊得很開心。走在深夜的路邊，突然一個膚色黝黑的中年男子湊過來問：你們會去投票嗎？要投給誰？－別搞錯了，他不是黑人，是阿拉伯人。在台灣，好像把人都分成三色，顏色越深我們越瞧不起，可糟糕了，我們把中東人放到哪？可中東人顏色也不都是黑的哪！總而言之，我說了我不是法國人，不能投票；長毛年輕人禮貌地說他會投給賀雅。我第一次意識到在法國有法國人是很在意總統大選的。 是個皮膚黝黑的法國人。絕對不是我們一般在法國電影中理所當然認為的法國人－那是高盧人，或是法蘭克人。 年輕人跟我解釋說：法國人口頭不說，但在內心深處，卻是很政治化的；這是第一個把天皇老子砍了頭的地方，這是大革命的地方，這是公社的地方，等等等。 我開始明白了平靜的表面底下，法國人並不是真的那麼不在乎總統是誰。 原本，我以為「外人」更在乎總統是誰。第一次聽到總統大選這件事，其實是在留學生的聚會裡。幾個呆了好些年的學生說，要是薩克奇當選，大家就趕快回國。那時我不懂，後來在火車上一個法國公務員才跟我解釋明白，原來這位老大說過一句驚天地棄鬼神的名言：「要是不喜歡法國的話，就滾蛋！」據說還是這句話鬧出2005年底的巴黎市郊大暴動。 可不對呀，邏輯不通。反過來想好了，要是喜歡法國的話，請上座？很明顯薩克奇不是這個意思，大家也不是這樣理解他的話。很明顯，所謂法國所屬的法國人，或是不用滾蛋的喜歡法國的法國人，指的不是（可能）喜歡法國而來到法國的留學生或移民。
这段叙述倒让我想起那位 1934 年出生在埃及亚历山卓的归化法国人 Georges Moustaki。不知他唱的 Le métèque 听在高卢人的耳里作何感想？
http://www.proz.com/topic/30418?start=70
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chance (X)
French法语译成Chinese汉语
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主题发起人
提个即简单又复杂的问题，如果没时间可以不答复或简单答复。
按你个人看法，完全自由的市场经济是否有弊病？
[Edited at 2007-05-04 11:35]
| | | | isahuang
Local time: 15:04
English英语译成Chinese汉语
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chance wrote:
提个即简单又复杂的问题，如果没时间可以不答复或简单答复。
按你个人看法，完全自由的市场经济是否有弊病？
[Edited at 2007-05-04 11:35]
这个问题很复杂。西方经济学理论认为市场可以解决近乎所有的问题。如果有人不公平竞争，市场的力量会迫其改变经营方式。这种想法理论上成立，但在实际运营当中会遇到不少问题。在市场经济的竞争下，肯定是优胜劣汰，很容易产生垄断，（有些垄断是市场需要）这就需要政府的一定干预，保护消费者利益。如果是完全自由的市场经济，没有政府干预，那出现问题后，单凭市场进行调节，所需的调节时间会很长。
| | | | isahuang
Local time: 15:04
English英语译成Chinese汉语
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| market economy | May 4, 2007 |
chance wrote:
提个即简单又复杂的问题，如果没时间可以不答复或简单答复。
按你个人看法，完全自由的市场经济是否有弊病？
[Edited at 2007-05-04 11:35]
Market economy is in general the most efficient system. However, limited government intervention is necessary. Some service cannot be provided by market in an efficient manner, such as national defense, public services as there are freeriders out there. In an ideal world, market economy without any intervention would work, but that world simply doesn't exist.
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