| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Being on a permanent standby list - do you respect yourself? Thread poster: sdvplatt
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sdvplatt
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:42
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
For years agencies got by inflating their worth by keeping 'resources' for all the language pairs in the world in their databases so they would always be able to find someone to fill in - usually at very short notice - for some non-core task. So you might have an agency that writes to you every 2 years with a 6 hour turnaround asking you and potentially a few other BCCs for your help.
So what?
Maybe the few extra dollars, euros, etc comes in handy at that particular time...... See more For years agencies got by inflating their worth by keeping 'resources' for all the language pairs in the world in their databases so they would always be able to find someone to fill in - usually at very short notice - for some non-core task. So you might have an agency that writes to you every 2 years with a 6 hour turnaround asking you and potentially a few other BCCs for your help.
So what?
Maybe the few extra dollars, euros, etc comes in handy at that particular time...
What if they never write?
Maybe some things to think about..
The rate they finally pay you does not reflect you being on call.
Are they paying you your true worth for being to standby for them? Do they pay you for potentially being available all the while you are an email away? Are you getting paid for making the agency look like it can handle all kinds of language pairs and specialisms? Are you getting anything for them touting your CV to potential clients?
Hidden costs
How much at risk is your sensitive data sitting in a database of some no-name firm waiting to be hacked or stolen? How careful are they with your personal information? Do you even know?
How much is the illusion of having been "onboarded" with tens of firms keeping you hanging on to the hope of future work?
How much are you still investing in terms of time and resources in preparation for that distant day when that BIG JOB will finally arrive?
Is it morally right for a firm to take all your personal data and give you nothing in return?
Do you consider yourself an asset for a company when you rarely or never work for them?
How much does the continued existence of such firms actually work against you by sucking away money for non-essential activities which could go to YOU? What if they just went away and at least low-volume work could be handled by networks of translators with lower overheads instead?
I am not talking about those handful of well-run firms who are more tech companies than LSPs can handle the complexity of formats, languages, tax requirements, timezones to offer a truly global service. Ie firms which add actually value.
I mean the SMEs with few clients who can only survive by feeding off freelancers, trying to extract more and more each year just to turn a profit (or not?), many of them living off low interest or the hope of being bought up some day by a bigger firm (with YOU as an asset in their database!)
At what point do you decide enough is enough? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B 
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 14:42
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Then don't share it | Apr 14, 2023 |
Don't share your CV and don't be on stand-by. I personally don't, because it never leads to any work. Agencies that have work don't have time for endless paperwork.
The point at which you decide is - Well, if you are very meticulous at keeping your records. Then go 1 year back, count the number of agencies that obtained your CV, then count how much work you received from them. It'll help you make a decision very quickly.
| | | | sdvplatt
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:42
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Lingua 5B wrote:
Don't share your CV and don't be on stand-by. I personally don't, because it never leads to any work. Agencies that have work don't have time for endless paperwork.
The point at which you decide is - Well, if you are very meticulous at keeping your records. Then go 1 year back, count the number of agencies that obtained your CV, then count how much work you received from them. It'll help you make a decision very quickly.
I agree with all of that. I dont share my CV. But its easy to forget and I am unpleasantly surprised when I get emails after 2-3 years
| | | | | I wouldn't but... | Apr 14, 2023 |
You're not on standby. You don't have to accept their work. You don't have to be in their database.
And there are plenty of agencies in your languages that can provide regular work.
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Kay Denney
France
Local time: 14:42
French to English
I really don't see what you're upset about.
I've sent my details to all sorts of people in the hopes of landing some work. Some have sent me work, the majority have ignored me. Some may have stuck my details in a database and occasionally I'll get a call from someone because they have an unusual request and I mentioned the necessary knowledge in my CV.
It's not like that data is costing me anything. I'm not being paid a retainer, and I'm certainly not waiting for them ... See more I really don't see what you're upset about.
I've sent my details to all sorts of people in the hopes of landing some work. Some have sent me work, the majority have ignored me. Some may have stuck my details in a database and occasionally I'll get a call from someone because they have an unusual request and I mentioned the necessary knowledge in my CV.
It's not like that data is costing me anything. I'm not being paid a retainer, and I'm certainly not waiting for them to contact me. I have plenty of work on my plate, and if they do call, I'll see what I can fit in around my other stuff.
I was contacted by a guy once, looking for someone who'd be prepared to slave all weekend on an emergency. I'd sent him my printed CV by post several years previously, like in pre-internet days, so he must have had a huge pile of CVs and had got nearly to the bottom. I wished him luck, and had a good laugh after I hung up.
And more recently, an agency I rarely work for contacted me and asked about a speciality. I confirmed that I had several clients in that industry. They then proceeded to put me in contact with another freelancer in a different language pair who was looking for a translator for a friend. The friend is now one of my favourite direct clients. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Niina Lahokoski
Finland
Local time: 15:42
Member (2008)
English to Finnish
+ ...
| Easy solutions | Apr 14, 2023 |
You are free to refuse or set a higher fee, if you so wish. Being on an agency's list doesn't bind you in any way, and you are not really on Standby. Just treat those requests like any other random, unwanted job offer, refusing politely. And if an agency starts spamming rubbish jobs, you can always ask them to remove you from their database.
[Edited at 2023-04-14 15:48 GMT]
| | | | | Some thoughts | Apr 14, 2023 |
Being in an agency database doesn't entitle you to anything, just like being on Proz doesn't. You are not on call or standby unless you have agreed to do that, which would be foolish to accept without compensation.
Why would you give them any sensitive data? Ordinary personal and business data is not considered sensitive in a GDPR sense. Of course, there is always a risk of leaks, just as when you shop online, give your data to authorities, etc. There isn't much we can do about that... See more Being in an agency database doesn't entitle you to anything, just like being on Proz doesn't. You are not on call or standby unless you have agreed to do that, which would be foolish to accept without compensation.
Why would you give them any sensitive data? Ordinary personal and business data is not considered sensitive in a GDPR sense. Of course, there is always a risk of leaks, just as when you shop online, give your data to authorities, etc. There isn't much we can do about that, except avoiding dodgy-looking agencies. If agencies are not allowed to know about you, how do you expect them to give you work?
You asked: 'Is it morally right for a firm to take all your personal data and give you nothing in return?'
What if you were looking for a builder, solicitor, hairdresser, dentist, painter, etc. Do you pay them for giving you information about their existence?
If you think a network of translators would work more in your interest than agencies, then what stops you setting it up? There is no law against that in Germany, as far as I am aware.
You are clearly frustrated, perhaps not just by the translation industry, but complaining about others will not get you any work. You cannot change what others are doing, so that's as helpful as complaining about the weather. The only thing you can change is what you yourself are doing.
I tried to have a look to see what would make me hire you if I were an agency. Your Proz profile has no bio. Your bio field only has a link, which leads to an inexistant page. The other website mentioned in your profile also leads to an inexistant page. I think I would go away already at this point.
Here is what you show potential clients:
How do you imagine this will attract any?
After 21 years' registration, you have only 12 pro-level Kudoz points.
You say you have a Bachelor's degree, and you have good feedback, but a degree alone does not entitle you to any work. Nobody owes you anything. You need to make an effort to make potential clients interested.
We don't know how you approach potential clients, but they need to get the feeling that you will be pleasant to work with, on reasonable terms, of course.
In any case, complaining will get you nowhere and could even harm you. You need a more constructive attitude. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 14:42
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
sdvplatt wrote:
The rate they finally pay you does not reflect you being on call.
I don't consider it "being on call" any more than I consider being listed in the telephone directory as "being on call".
Are you getting paid for making the agency look like it can handle all kinds of language pairs and specialisms? Are you getting anything for them touting your CV to potential clients?
No, but that is not a problem. That is how the translator - agency - client chain works.
How much at risk is your sensitive data sitting in a database of some no-name firm waiting to be hacked or stolen?
I don't really care about that. I don't share data with agencies that are super sensitive.
How much is the illusion of having been "onboarded" with tens of firms keeping you hanging on to the hope of future work? How much are you still investing in terms of time and resources in preparation for that distant day when that BIG JOB will finally arrive?
Onboarding with as many agencies as possible is part of a freelance translator's usual marketing activities. It's part of the job, really. You can't put a price on marketing efforts. 90% of marketing effort is wasted, and everyone knows that, but the 10% that gets you that job is what makes it worth your while.
Is it morally right for a firm to take all your personal data and give you nothing in return?
They only take the personal data that I'm willing to share with them in exchange for the possibility of future work. Sure, individual agencies may give "nothing in return", but on the whole, your marketing efforts pay off. To repeat, there is no sure way of knowing which lead will definitely result in a job.
How much does the continued existence of such firms actually work against you by sucking away money for non-essential activities which could go to YOU?
It doesn't really. Marketing is like casting a wide net and then checking the net each time to see if you caught any fish. You should not think of the times when the net came back empty as "wasted" castings. Do not judge the success of your fishing by what each individual casting achieves, but by what you end up with at the end of a hard day's or week's or month's marketing effort.
At what point do you decide enough is enough?
Never. You should always spend some time on marketing. You may eventually spend less time using certain types of marketing channels, but you must always continue to market. Otherwise your work is going to dry up.
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I have been translating for over 30 years, and I’ve only been asked to be on standby once or twice. Translation agencies are not the enemy, translators just have to know who to choose. For every bottom-feeder offering a pittance, there are lots of agencies that could be a worthwhile source of income. One way to achieve that is by carrying out due diligence on every translation agency you come across. It’s okay to be picky about who you choose to work with. I always do my homework before send... See more I have been translating for over 30 years, and I’ve only been asked to be on standby once or twice. Translation agencies are not the enemy, translators just have to know who to choose. For every bottom-feeder offering a pittance, there are lots of agencies that could be a worthwhile source of income. One way to achieve that is by carrying out due diligence on every translation agency you come across. It’s okay to be picky about who you choose to work with. I always do my homework before sending my CV, meaning that I only send it to agencies that work in my language pairs and my fields of specialization. A few have contacted me, some have become my clients, others didn’t. That’s the name of the game… ▲ Collapse
| | | | William Bowley
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:42
Spanish to English
+ ...
Agencies generally keep as many linguists on file as possible, a) for their own image when marketing to clients, to impress them with large numbers, and b) for the recruitment/HR team to seem as if they are successful.
Also, being on this list you speak of is not the same as being 'on call' - if you're routinely sitting waiting for jobs, there's only so long that you'll last before you're seeking unemployment benefits.
Sign up with as many reasonable agencies/clients as... See more Agencies generally keep as many linguists on file as possible, a) for their own image when marketing to clients, to impress them with large numbers, and b) for the recruitment/HR team to seem as if they are successful.
Also, being on this list you speak of is not the same as being 'on call' - if you're routinely sitting waiting for jobs, there's only so long that you'll last before you're seeking unemployment benefits.
Sign up with as many reasonable agencies/clients as you can. @Samuel's imagery about nets is right - it's a time-consuming but necessary process. If you feel like you're over sharing any information then say so or focus on other clients. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | We have a very different approach to this | Apr 15, 2023 |
sdvplatt wrote: Lingua 5B wrote:
Don't share your CV and don't be on stand-by. I personally don't, because it never leads to any work. Agencies that have work don't have time for endless paperwork.
The point at which you decide is - Well, if you are very meticulous at keeping your records. Then go 1 year back, count the number of agencies that obtained your CV, then count how much work you received from them. It'll help you make a decision very quickly. (...) I am unpleasantly surprised when I get emails after 2-3 years
When I’m contacted 2/3 years (or more) after having sent my CV I’m thankfully surprised…
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:42
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Agencies are not responsible for your success, or lack of it | Apr 15, 2023 |
sdvplatt wrote:
For years agencies got by inflating their worth by keeping 'resources' for all the language pairs in the world in their databases so they would always be able to find someone to fill in - usually at very short notice - for some non-core task.
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about the role of agencies in this industry. Five years ago you were sort of suggesting that translators should rise up against their overlords, storm the barricades and replace agencies with organisations just like agencies but run by [drum roll] ...freelance translators!
Perhaps because - to be blunt - very few freelance translators show much commercial acumen, many forum participants disagreed with you back then and I doubt many will agree with you now. Taking a combative approach to agencies is not a (to use Thomas' adjective) constructive attitude given that you must work either with agencies or direct clients. Those are your only options, and finding direct clients is likely to require an even greater level of sales and marketing ability than finding agencies.
There are good agencies out there that do not assume that freelancers are always on call and that do respect their freelance partners but naturally the best agencies want to work only with the best freelancers. Are you one of them? A failure to get on the radar of such agencies suggests that you're not one of the best, or that you're not marketing yourself effectively. As persuasively argued earlier in the thread, your profile tells a tale. Or rather, it doesn't tell a tale, and therein lies at least part of the problem.
Try a little introspection. Ask yourself what have you done to make yourself more appealing to good agencies since your 2018 thread. Do you now have additional skills or knowledge that are in demand but that are difficult for others to acquire? Do you have additional qualifications, unobtainable without a significant effort, that agencies want to see? That's the sort of thing on which you should be focused. Alternatively, a different industry may offer you a better return on your investment of time and effort.
Regards,
Dan
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sdvplatt
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:42
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
William Bowley wrote:
Agencies generally keep as many linguists on file as possible, a) for their own image when marketing to clients, to impress them with large numbers, and b) for the recruitment/HR team to seem as if they are successful.
Also, being on this list you speak of is not the same as being 'on call' - if you're routinely sitting waiting for jobs, there's only so long that you'll last before you're seeking unemployment benefits.
Sign up with as many reasonable agencies/clients as you can. @Samuel's imagery about nets is right - it's a time-consuming but necessary process. If you feel like you're over sharing any information then say so or focus on other clients.
I missed the second point- to keep the army of administrators in a job.
| | | | sdvplatt
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:42
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida wrote:
I have been translating for over 30 years, and I’ve only been asked to be on standby once or twice. Translation agencies are not the enemy, translators just have to know who to choose. For every bottom-feeder offering a pittance, there are lots of agencies that could be a worthwhile source of income. One way to achieve that is by carrying out due diligence on every translation agency you come across. It’s okay to be picky about who you choose to work with. I always do my homework before sending my CV, meaning that I only send it to agencies that work in my language pairs and my fields of specialization. A few have contacted me, some have become my clients, others didn’t. That’s the name of the game…
Proportions will vary. There are enough in my experience to write this post. Was not the case 5-10 years ago but the industry further consolidated and will continue to do so.
How do you do due diligence?
| | | | sdvplatt
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:42
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | One way of looking at it... | Apr 16, 2023 |
Samuel Murray wrote: sdvplatt wrote:
The rate they finally pay you does not reflect you being on call. I don't consider it "being on call" any more than I consider being listed in the telephone directory as "being on call". Are you getting paid for making the agency look like it can handle all kinds of language pairs and specialisms? Are you getting anything for them touting your CV to potential clients? No, but that is not a problem. That is how the translator - agency - client chain works. How much at risk is your sensitive data sitting in a database of some no-name firm waiting to be hacked or stolen? I don't really care about that. I don't share data with agencies that are super sensitive. How much is the illusion of having been "onboarded" with tens of firms keeping you hanging on to the hope of future work? How much are you still investing in terms of time and resources in preparation for that distant day when that BIG JOB will finally arrive? Onboarding with as many agencies as possible is part of a freelance translator's usual marketing activities. It's part of the job, really. You can't put a price on marketing efforts. 90% of marketing effort is wasted, and everyone knows that, but the 10% that gets you that job is what makes it worth your while. "Everyone knows" Is it morally right for a firm to take all your personal data and give you nothing in return? They only take the personal data that I'm willing to share with them in exchange for the possibility of future work. Sure, individual agencies may give "nothing in return", but on the whole, your marketing efforts pay off. To repeat, there is no sure way of knowing which lead will definitely result in a job. How much does the continued existence of such firms actually work against you by sucking away money for non-essential activities which could go to YOU? It doesn't really. Marketing is like casting a wide net and then checking the net each time to see if you caught any fish. You should not think of the times when the net came back empty as "wasted" castings. Do not judge the success of your fishing by what each individual casting achieves, but by what you end up with at the end of a hard day's or week's or month's marketing effort. At what point do you decide enough is enough? Never. You should always spend some time on marketing. You may eventually spend less time using certain types of marketing channels, but you must always continue to market. Otherwise your work is going to dry up.
Good to see life from the other side from time to time. While it is an established form of marketing, it is only one way of doing things. And as I wrote I suggested the reward is far less than the reward.
If it works for you or others then why not go for it. I disagree that it should be what everyone does.
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