| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Filtering notifications based on rates offered Thread poster: Kevin Lossner
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Kevin Lossner 
Portugal
Local time: 04:59
German to English
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TOPIC STARTER | On the subject of filters.... | Jul 9, 2008 |
As far as the effect of the filters on outsourcer behavior is concerned, fixing the broken rate filter will probably exclude more mailings than an option not to receive notifications without a rate (which would probably be chosen by fewer people), so chances are the cheapskates would continue posting without suggesting a rate. I don't really have any strong feelings about the desirablity of a posting with or without a suggested rate, since the rate I propose to the outsourcer seldom has anything... See more As far as the effect of the filters on outsourcer behavior is concerned, fixing the broken rate filter will probably exclude more mailings than an option not to receive notifications without a rate (which would probably be chosen by fewer people), so chances are the cheapskates would continue posting without suggesting a rate. I don't really have any strong feelings about the desirablity of a posting with or without a suggested rate, since the rate I propose to the outsourcer seldom has anything to do with the "specified" rate. When I have no time for extensive correspondence and drafting of an offer for some joker who expects work at 2 cents per word and hasn't made that clear, I'll probably switch on the "no posted rate" filter (and cut down the volume of e-mail received), and when I've got a bit of quiet and time to go prospecting I'll switch it off and take a chance on meeting the many legitimate outsourcers willing to pay a decent rate who simply don't state any expectations. There are quite a few of these - they might not state a price, because price simply isn't a key criterion for them.
Speaking of filters, one I'd like to see is for region/country. There are certain places that simply do not interest me for business, because their banking and legal systems do not offer me many attractive options or I simply do not consider them a good source for the kind of projects I want. I haven't seen a single interesting rate from anywhere in Asia or eastern Europe for my language combination, so it would relieve my inbox of unwanted spam if I could filter jobs from outsourcers in those areas. I'm sure the outsourcers won't like the idea, but we are really wasting each other's time to discuss a proposition which will never interest me. When that company in China opens an office in Munich and I can sue them there when they fail to pay, then we'll do business. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Yaotl Altan
Mexico
Local time: 21:59
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
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| Geographical point of view | Jul 9, 2008 |
Kevin Lossner wrote:
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Speaking of filters, one I'd like to see is for region/country. There are certain places that simply do not interest me for business, because their banking and legal systems do not offer me many attractive options or I simply do not consider them a good source for the kind of projects I want. I haven't seen a single interesting rate from anywhere in Asia or eastern Europe for my language combination, so it would relieve my inbox of unwanted spam if I could filter jobs from outsourcers in those areas. I'm sure the outsourcers won't like the idea, but we are really wasting each other's time to discuss a proposition which will never interest me. When that company in China opens an office in Munich and I can sue them there when they fail to pay, then we'll do business.
That's another good idea. Translators deserve to choose with accuracy the kind of job proposals we receive.
| | | | | More on filters | Jul 9, 2008 |
Dear Maria:
I am a freelancer, most of my customers are end users or colleagues like me. Sometimes I outsource a job, but do not use the job posting system of the site. O offer jobs to previously selected and tested colleagues, or just select suitable colleagues from the directory, offer them a rate for the job (higher than that of most outsourcers) and, if they accept it, send them a short but difficult sample for a test. The results have been so good that I will stick to this sys... See more Dear Maria:
I am a freelancer, most of my customers are end users or colleagues like me. Sometimes I outsource a job, but do not use the job posting system of the site. O offer jobs to previously selected and tested colleagues, or just select suitable colleagues from the directory, offer them a rate for the job (higher than that of most outsourcers) and, if they accept it, send them a short but difficult sample for a test. The results have been so good that I will stick to this system.
Regarding your assertion related to outsourcers (who do not state a rate) answering to quotes, I would reformulate it a little:
Anyway, let's say that many outsourcers don't bother to answer to anyone after they have received a quote with a sufficiently low rate (and this happens most of the time).
Is it beneficial for the profession that many so-called "outsourcers" use the site just to get jobs done at the cheapest possible price? Have you ever thought of comparing their margins with the actual added value they offer to their customers? Such "outsourcers" can not be educated, they are happy with their "mistakes", and will keep on doing their business in spite of any filter and/or notification.
As to the normal outsourcers, if they know that such filters exist, even without any notification, this would contribute to that necessary long-term educational effect, for which nobody has done nothing yet.
I am sorry that you only see disadvantages in all changes proposed.
For my part, I definitely prefer to be able to adjust my settings so that I do not receive notifications of job offers without a rate stated, nor those offering a rate below what I may consider acceptable, AND that outsourcers be made aware (at the time of filling the job posting form) that their job notifications will not be sent to those members who have decided to use these options. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Maria Karra
United States
Local time: 23:59
Member (2000)
Greek to English
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Pablo Grosschmid wrote:
I am sorry that you only see disadvantages in all changes proposed.
Pablo, excuse me for not replying in detail, I have to run to my class, but just to address the above statement of yours because it's inaccurate and it bothered me a little: Did I not specify that I was referring to your first suggestion only? And more specifically, to the part about the notification? Did I not say that I am not against implementing a filter except if it must be accompanied by your proposed message?
Also, I don't remember commenting on Kevin's original suggestion about filters for very low rates (which is also your suggestion #2) or the last one about filters based on region/country.
[Edited at 2008-07-09 20:33]
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Yaotl Altan
Mexico
Local time: 21:59
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
In order to end this saga, we must hear others' suggestions and complaints about this idea. I think we can vote, as a community, in order to know how this function would be implememented (button, field, etc.) or not. As I wrote before, I fully agree.
| | | | | filters and geography | Jul 9, 2008 |
Sorry for that, Maria, I did not mean it that way, sure we can find common ground.
Kevins idea is attactive.
Being able to specifying or exclude continents, large countries, regions, EU (Eurozone), could be useful
| | | | Andrea Riffo
Chile
Local time: 23:59
English to Spanish
+ ...
Pablo Grosschmid wrote:
Kevins idea is attactive.
Being able to specifying or exclude continents, large countries, regions, EU (Eurozone), could be useful
Specially consiering that outsourcers can and DO set country specifications.
Greetings all
| | | | Maria Karra
United States
Local time: 23:59
Member (2000)
Greek to English
+ ...
| rate not specified | Jul 10, 2008 |
I'll try to explain briefly why I am against a ProZ filter for jobs where the rate isn't specified.
As I wrote before, we know best how much our services are worth, and we should be the ones specifying a rate. Like Viktoria said, we don't go to a lawyer telling him how much we're willing to pay him, take it or leave it. That would be ridiculous and I still don't understand why it has to be like this in the translation world.
Viktoria wrote:
I also agree that it should not be up to the outsourcer to "offer" rates. Do you go to the lawyer saying you would like him to sort out that copyright infringement issue at $4.95? Let's get serious... and let's get rid of that field altogether. Outsourcers are free to shop around - why don't they do just that?
So, back to the filter. You (by "you" I don't mean anyone in particular in this thread) may want to control the flow of e-mails that reach your mailbox. It's understandable. However, this type of filter would go way beyond your own mailbox. It would affect outsourcer's practices because even if they preferred not to specify a rate in the past -because they were open to negotiation or simply cared more about quality than price- they'll be "pushed" to do so after seeing the effect of the filter; consequently that will affect other translators' ability to specify rates when contacting outsourcers. In other words, this filter will not affect your mailbox only, it will affect everyone else and their business. What a member does with his mailbox is his business, but when such a filter is implemented on ProZ, there's an effect on others' way of working, and to me personally that effect is negative and unwanted.
If a member does not want to receive notifications of jobs where the rate isn't specified, I can think of a relatively easy solution:
ProZ developers can add the "Rate" field in e-mail notifications, and then members can add a filter in their own e-mail program: If Rate field is empty, move message to Trash.
This of course doesn't address the educational aspect mentioned previously, but again, I don't see any positive educational effect that we'd achieve by making outsourcers define how much we should charge them.
Maria
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